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PCN:33c Manor Lane - too late to appeal, Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (Buses and cycles only)
PassengerSeat
post Sun, 1 Nov 2020 - 02:20
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Morning everyone,

I'm new in this forum. adding my variation to the c33 Manor Lane series
We received a Charge Certificate
Date of this Notice: 27/10/2020

Date of contravention: 21/08/2020
Location of contravention: Manor Lane (P)
Contravention: 33c Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (Buses and cycles only)

Saying 'We sent you a Penalty Charge Notice / Notice to Owner on 18/09/2020, in connection with the contravention above...

We are now sending you this charge certificate because either you did not respond to the Penalty Charge Notice / Notice to Owner or your wrote to us but we did not accept your reasons for not having to pay the Penalty Charge...

As a result, the penalty charge has now increased by 50% to £195.00

...if not receive payment before the end of the 14 day period ... debt at the county court ... bailiffs...

It is now too late to appeal against paying this Penalty Charge'

and at the bottom of the page:
How to Pay: Instructions Overleaf

Lewisham Parking Services, PO Box 297, Sheffield, S98 1SU Lewisham.gov.uk/parking

On the back of the page:
HOW TO PAY
CREDIT / DEBIT CARD PAYMENT can be made online via www.lewisham.gov.uk/pcn or by telephone on 02087875397.

Video here, the black car and the famous planters:
https://pcnevidence.lewisham.gov.uk/pcnonli...ype=video%2Fmp4

I have read the other 33c Manor Lane posts which is really helpful to know there is the 28-days trick, the payment-address trick, and no double restriction on same road rule. But in my case this supposingly second notice is actually the only/first notice we have received. We moved home in July and the form to change car register address is still in one of the many boxes that are still sitting in the garage so we haven't update the address for the car, only updated the address for driving license. We do go to the old address to collect posts but don't recall received any PCN (this ridiculous penalty figure will certainly be unforgetable).

The 'initial' notice was sent on 18/09 which is the 28th day since the contravention, also a Friday, so even if it did arrive, plus two working days for it to be delivered, the 28-day trick would apply. But it didn't arrive so of course we didn't appeal, now it says too late to appeal. The current notice doesn't have payment address. Am I the only real unlucky one among the Manor Lane victims or is there still a way to challenge it? Thanks for reading my long post. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post Sun, 1 Nov 2020 - 02:20
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 1 Nov 2020 - 14:49
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Don't worry this can be reset Wait for the next document this is called an order for recovery. This will include a form that allows you to make a statutory declaration to the effect that you did not receive the PCN. once filed the TEC will revoke the CC and the OfR and the council will be allowed to reserve the PCN

Then it can be challenged



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PassengerSeat
post Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 01:18
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 1 Nov 2020 - 14:49) *
Don't worry this can be reset Wait for the next document this is called an order for recovery. This will include a form that allows you to make a statutory declaration to the effect that you did not receive the PCN. once filed the TEC will revoke the CC and the OfR and the council will be allowed to reserve the PCN

Then it can be challenged


Thank you PASTMYBEST! Such a relief hearing what you said smile.gif

For the moment shall I stay silent or do I need to contact the council?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 08:33
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QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 01:18) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 1 Nov 2020 - 14:49) *
Don't worry this can be reset Wait for the next document this is called an order for recovery. This will include a form that allows you to make a statutory declaration to the effect that you did not receive the PCN. once filed the TEC will revoke the CC and the OfR and the council will be allowed to reserve the PCN

Then it can be challenged


Thank you PASTMYBEST! Such a relief hearing what you said smile.gif

For the moment shall I stay silent or do I need to contact the council?

no wait for the order for recovery


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Incandescent
post Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 09:15
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OP, you MUST make sure you get that Order for Recovery. I would also suggest you update your V5C asap, and not leave it in the garage in a box somewhere, or other postal PCNs will go astray in future. There are now several threads running on this forum from OPs who did not update their V5s and have bailiffs at the door.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 09:15
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Neil B
post Tue, 3 Nov 2020 - 17:26
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If you haven't received the OfR by, say, 26/11, come back here.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PassengerSeat
post Tue, 3 Nov 2020 - 23:41
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 08:33) *
QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 01:18) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 1 Nov 2020 - 14:49) *
Don't worry this can be reset Wait for the next document this is called an order for recovery. This will include a form that allows you to make a statutory declaration to the effect that you did not receive the PCN. once filed the TEC will revoke the CC and the OfR and the council will be allowed to reserve the PCN

Then it can be challenged


Thank you PASTMYBEST! Such a relief hearing what you said smile.gif

For the moment shall I stay silent or do I need to contact the council?

no wait for the order for recovery



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 2 Nov 2020 - 09:15) *
OP, you MUST make sure you get that Order for Recovery. I would also suggest you update your V5C asap, and not leave it in the garage in a box somewhere, or other postal PCNs will go astray in future. There are now several threads running on this forum from OPs who did not update their V5s and have bailiffs at the door.



QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 3 Nov 2020 - 17:26) *
If you haven't received the OfR by, say, 26/11, come back here.


Thank you all PASTMYBEST, Incandescent & Neil. I will sit and wait till 26/11 while looking for the V5C to update the address asap. Fingers crossed.

This post has been edited by PassengerSeat: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 - 23:42
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Neil B
post Wed, 4 Nov 2020 - 00:26
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QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Tue, 3 Nov 2020 - 23:41) *
while looking for the V5C to update the address asap.

How have you managed to receive the Charge Cert?

If your address is wrong updating the V5 won't change anything with the council now and OfR will go to your old address.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 - 00:30


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PassengerSeat
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 13:41
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 4 Nov 2020 - 00:26) *
QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Tue, 3 Nov 2020 - 23:41) *
while looking for the V5C to update the address asap.

How have you managed to receive the Charge Cert?

If your address is wrong updating the V5 won't change anything with the council now and OfR will go to your old address.


Thanks Neil B, so far not, three days left till 26/11, will see. We just sometimes go to the old address to check posts.

Unsurprisingly received (found in the old address) another fresh notice last week, same place, the notice was dated 30/10/2020. If I pay it, does it cancel my right to appeal? Can I pay it first then challenge it to get refund?

Many thanks.
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Neil B
post Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 14:39
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QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 13:41) *
Unsurprisingly received (found in the old address) another fresh notice last week, same place, the notice was dated 30/10/2020. If I pay it, does it cancel my right to appeal? Can I pay it first then challenge it to get refund?

Why would you do that? Currently at the full amount of £130 so can't increase as long as you stick to deadlines.
You need to start a new thread for that one and post the PCN so that others can help you to challenge it.

QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 13:41) *
Thanks Neil B, so far not, three days left till 26/11, will see. We just sometimes go to the old address to check posts.

Have you got that V5 sorted yet? You really are putting yourself at risk in the future if not.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PassengerSeat
post Wed, 25 Nov 2020 - 09:58
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 14:39) *
QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 13:41) *
Unsurprisingly received (found in the old address) another fresh notice last week, same place, the notice was dated 30/10/2020. If I pay it, does it cancel my right to appeal? Can I pay it first then challenge it to get refund?

Why would you do that? Currently at the full amount of £130 so can't increase as long as you stick to deadlines.
You need to start a new thread for that one and post the PCN so that others can help you to challenge it.

QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Mon, 23 Nov 2020 - 13:41) *
Thanks Neil B, so far not, three days left till 26/11, will see. We just sometimes go to the old address to check posts.

Have you got that V5 sorted yet? You really are putting yourself at risk in the future if not.


Thanks Neil, that's just a curious thought smile.gif never challenged a ticket before so would like to play safe in case it doesn't work. Like you said not much point now as already passed the discount period. Will start a new thread for help on the new ticket.

I sent a V62 and still waiting for a new V5C to be sent to the old address then I can update the address. Did find the V5C and tried to change address online but failed, turns out the V5C I have is just the new keeper's section from the previous owner's. Learning everyday.
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Neil B
post Fri, 27 Nov 2020 - 13:58
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So, do you have this OfR yet?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PassengerSeat
post Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 09:01
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 27 Nov 2020 - 13:58) *
So, do you have this OfR yet?


Many thanks Neil for following up.

Up to yesterday evening no, nothing has arrived. Antyhing I should do next?
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Neil B
post Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 13:39
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QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 09:01) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 27 Nov 2020 - 13:58) *
So, do you have this OfR yet?


Many thanks Neil for following up.

Up to yesterday evening no, nothing has arrived. Antyhing I should do next?

Phone TEC on Monday and simply ask if the debt has been registered. If it has you can file a PE3 statutory declaration.

If it hasn't, repeat the call every 12 days or so. 0300 123 1059


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PassengerSeat
post Mon, 30 Nov 2020 - 02:15
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 13:39) *
QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 09:01) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 27 Nov 2020 - 13:58) *
So, do you have this OfR yet?


Many thanks Neil for following up.

Up to yesterday evening no, nothing has arrived. Antyhing I should do next?

Phone TEC on Monday and simply ask if the debt has been registered. If it has you can file a PE3 statutory declaration.

If it hasn't, repeat the call every 12 days or so. 0300 123 1059


Many thanks Neil. Will do that and update with progress.

This post has been edited by PassengerSeat: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 - 02:15
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PassengerSeat
post Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 16:19
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Very interesting update. I rang the above number a couple of times and each time they say they dont have my case and it is still with the council.
I have another PCN that came later with same reason @ Manor Lane (the one I borrowed viola's letter to appeal and got rejected) and I want to try my luck with council to see if they can reset the discount period for it. So I rang them at the number in the link below:
https://lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/parking/...rking-penalties

and found out:
1. yes the discount period can be reset,
2. my first PCN (the subject of this post) has been cancelled,
3. at the middle of that page there is an section mentioning changes made to few roads including Manor Lane saying:
'On Manor Lane, the existing camera will be adjusted to allow vehicles to pass through in both directions, except heavy goods vehicles (HGVs)'

while it also says:
'All penalty charge notices issued up to and including 9 November 2020 are enforceable under the London Local Authority and Transport of London Act 2003'.

After so much headache the current outcome does make me smile. Can see my options for the standing PCN are:
a. pay that discounted amount and then appeal,
b. do not pay but appeal,
c. do not pay and do not appeal either, hoping it will be cancelled like the first one.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the mechanism behind this.
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8080
post Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 16:54
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What’s the contravention date on the later PCN?
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PassengerSeat
post Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 18:57
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QUOTE (8080 @ Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 16:54) *
What’s the contravention date on the later PCN?


It happened on Monday 26 Oct 2020 and PCN was served by post on Friday, Oct 30, 2020. So just over a week before the change.
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Neil B
post Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 20:01
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QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 16:19) *
After so much headache the current outcome does make me smile. Can see my options for the standing PCN are:
a. pay that discounted amount and then appeal,
b. do not pay but appeal,
c. do not pay and do not appeal either, hoping it will be cancelled like the first one.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the mechanism behind this.

a and c are not options.
b depends what you mean by "appeal".


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PassengerSeat
post Sat, 2 Jan 2021 - 10:19
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 20:01) *
QUOTE (PassengerSeat @ Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 16:19) *
After so much headache the current outcome does make me smile. Can see my options for the standing PCN are:
a. pay that discounted amount and then appeal,
b. do not pay but appeal,
c. do not pay and do not appeal either, hoping it will be cancelled like the first one.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the mechanism behind this.

a and c are not options.
b depends what you mean by "appeal".


Thanks Neil, actually I don't know on what grounds I should keep appealing. Has there been any successful case on Manor Lane PCNs so far using other approaches?
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