Single yello line PCN Options

[cpu2007]

HI guys

I hope someone can help me on this.
Last friday I was in Manchester and when I got inside a street, I found no parking, however there were yellow lines on one side of the street.

I didn't know what time the parking was gonna get available (6pm or 8pm)
so I got out and checked and after a couple of minutes I found the board showing that I can park at 6pm

it was nearly 6pm but when I got back to my car I saw a PCN, given to me at 5:47pm and the ceo waited only 2 mins before issuing it.

Location Link

Is there a grace period os something I can apply on this?

Thank you



This post has been edited by cpu2007: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 13:47

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[Incandescent]

Unfortunately no grace period in the circumstances you describe, but you could challenge it on the basis you stopped to check the sign for the restriction, saw it was after 6 pm and were returning to your car to drive off and around until 6 pm. However far better to have driven around to find the sign.

[stamfordman]

Always a risk to leave a car in possible contravention. Was it this sign:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4899096,-...3312!8i6656

and how far away did you park?

[cpu2007]

I know but that road was extremely busy at that time so I stopped it here

parking site

As you can see at the beginning of this road, there's a sign but it was facing the other side and as a result I didn't see it at first.
I had to walk down to the location you've linked in order to see the time.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4899096,-...3312!8i6656


Considering the time this happened and considering the ceo only waited two minutes,it's really frustrating.

[cp8759]

You could appeal but you're relying on the adjudicator believing you and being sympathetic.

[cpu2007]

Hi guys, I wanted to know what's the deadline for the council to reply?
I have made my first informal appeal on the 22nd of January by email and received an answer today(rejection) on the 15th of March. That's 52 days.

This post has been edited by cpu2007: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 16:28

[cp8759]

There is no deadline for informal reps, post the letter on here in case it contains any errors.

[PASTMYBEST]

There is no deadline for informal reps, post the letter on here in case it contains any errors.

post everything PCN challenge rejection and council photos. You are allowed time to check signs and that is the issue. You can also challenge the accuracy of the Ceo's hand held device

[cpu2007]

Here's the PCN as well as the reply.


This post has been edited by cpu2007: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 20:18

[cp8759]

Can you show us what you sent them?

There is a flaw in their letter, they say you cannot park while you check the signs, this is not true. You are allowed to park for a short but reasonable amount of time to check the restrictions. This error in the letter is a procedural impropriety which means the PCN cannot be enforced. However in practice the council will not accept this, so you'll have to appeal to the tribunal to get it cancelled. But in my opinion the odds are in your favour.

[cpu2007]

Thank you cp8759, you are giving me some hope
Unfortunately I do not have the letter I sent them, I appealed through their site and not sure if there's a way to retrieve it.

gist of the letter was that the time I parked my car was very close to 6pm, which is when you're allowed to park on single yellow line and that the reason why the car was unattended is because I didn't know if the allowed time was 6pm pr 8pm so had to get out of the car and search for the sign showing that,which took a few minutes.

[cp8759]

You can ask the council to provide a copy of your representations.

How far from the sign were you parked? The fact that the CEO only observed the car for two minutes helps, but you still need to persuade the adjudicator that it took you over two minutes to walk from your car to the sign and back, and it doesn't seem like a very long street.

[cpu2007]

The sign was sort of next to the car but at that time I didn't see it it was dark, it was like 10 metres away,near the entrance of the street(even when I came back I didn't know if was for the street i parked on or the other one.
Anyway, because I didn't see it, I went all the way down to that street, on the opposite side and found the sign there, it took me a few minutes(not sure how many but definitely more than 2)

Here's the view of where the sign was (the sign that I didn't notice at first)
First sign

My car was parked here, which is 10 metres away from that sign
Car parked

This is the sign I found when I was searching for the time I can park on single yellow line
Sign I walked down to

[cp8759]

The only issue I have is that both signs are within line of sight from where you parked, so you need to persuade the adjudicator that it took you that long to walk to the sign and back, you didn't see the CEO (who would have been standing by your car for a couple of minutes while he took pictures of your car and prepared the PCN), and the CEO didn't see you (as his notes will presumably say). Given this road isn't that long, you're going to have to be very convincing.

The council may well allege that it's more likely you just parked there and wandered off.

At this point I think that in order to win this, you need to appeal it all the way to the tribunal, ask for a personal hearing, and hope that you come across as sincere. The council are unlikely to accept your story (because they'll think you could have just made it up and you should have seen the first sign), so your choice is to pay the discounted penalty while you can, or risk the full amount at the tribunal.

[Incandescent]

As you can see, it's not a slam-dunk win. So you now have to decide whether to go the double-or-quits gamble route at adjudication, or cough-up at the discounted rate.

[cpu2007]

Thank you so much guys.. Considering the situation I feel like it's gonna be a difficult situation and more of a gamble than a possible win.
My hope was to rely on grace period, which obviously doesn't exists for single yellow lines, as my car was parked there 15 minutes before 6pm and I was genuinely looking the sign post. Despite seeing one just 10 metres behind me, because it was dark and there was a lot of traffic, I didn't see that post behind me at all. Otherwise I would have sat in the car for that period, why risk it when there are only 10-15 mins left
However this looks like a long shot so it's better to pay.

Thanks again

[hcandersen]

As a point, you need to get up to speed on these signs and lines.

The one you went to has no relevance, other than coincidental, to where you were. A sign must be on a continuous yellow line, in other words you cannot cross a side road (because the line on the other side is not joined to yours, there's a gap, AKA the junction), you must follow the line into the side road. And in this case there is a sign just to the right in the side road.

Restrictions on SYL continue until there is a gap or another restriction e.g. zebra crossing, or there is a transverse yellow marking on the line.

For the future.

[hcandersen]

As a point, you need to get up to speed on these signs and lines.

The one you went to has no relevance, other than coincidental, to where you were. A sign must be on a continuous yellow line, in other words you cannot cross a side road (because the line on the other side is not joined to yours, there's a gap, AKA the junction), you must follow the line into the side road. And in this case there is a sign just to the right in the side road.

Restrictions on SYL continue until there is a gap or another restriction e.g. zebra crossing, or there is a transverse yellow marking on the line.

For the future.

[cpu2007]

Thank you hcandersen, this is something I wasn't aware of and it's a very useful piece of information. I will keep that in mind.

[cpu2007]

Hello everyone,
I know I said I was gonna pay but unfortunately I missed the deadline, I remember the day I was going to pay, I was a day late.
So I decided to wait for the NTO and make a formal appeal as I was going to pay the full price anyway
However this didn't happen, I didn't receive any NTO but a charge certificate.

So I started looking at everything I've received and found a few incongruities .

Date of the PCN: 12/01/2018
Date of Informal appeal: 22/01/2018
Informal Appeal rejection: 15/03/2018

I waited for the NTO so that I could appeal formally.But..
Charge certificate date: 04/05/2018

On the charge certificate, they say they have sent me an NTO on the 30/03/2018, an NTO I never received.
However, shouldn't the NTO be sent 28 days after the informal appeal rejection?

Furthermore, the time of contravention for is 17:47 but having looked at the pictures, I noticed that some of the pictures were taken at 17:46 and others at 17:48, so technically the CEO started to take pictures before issuing a PCN, not sure if that can help.

Here's the CC in case there's something you guys think can be done, I see the 14 days reply period a bit confusing. It says

if the pcn is not paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which this charge certificate was served, the enforcement authority may...

and then..

the CC will be taken to have been served on the second working day after the day of posting ....

So, do I get 14 days or less than that to reply?