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ktfsh
post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:47
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Hi some questions please re Hire car speeding ticket

just looking for ways to delay any possible ban past christmas as if hitting before then its going to cause problems

the car was a hire car, the speeding was done on 6th sept. hire company emailed the form through on the 23rd sept
sent the named driver off on 24th Sept by email and form attachement
verification of receipt of form and transferal of liability arrived today 9th Oct by email

1. If sending an NIP back unsigned once it gets to the driver, how long would it be before receiving a reminder prompt to sign it?
2. once signing and admitting liability, then how long do the police take to send out either a fixed penalty, an offer, or court notice?
3. whats chances of a ban if no other points on license? it was 103mph on motorway or what could be given?
4. the driver is actually unemployed and being supported by partner so how does that affect any fines?
5. the new NIP will be sent out to the named driver now i assume, so if they only confirmed receipt of the named driver form today even tho sent on 24th last month. how long would that take to get sent out , it hasnt arrived as yet
6. if it goes to a court summons would that mean a definite ban, also would he have to attend or can he plead guilty by post, the court would be 6 hrs drive and if he got banned theres no way he would get home or get the car back. emailed some solicitors for advice and representation and not one has responded !!


thanks in advance
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post Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 12:47
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Fredd
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 23:08
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 23:01) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 22:34) *
It might be significant to know how would they deal with someone who supports themselves from wealth rather than income?

It is my belief that they would go through a similar process. Anybody who is able to run a car (either from income, a benefactor or from wealth) must be expected to meet all the expenses - whether planned or unplanned - associated with their motoring from the same source. If their clutch goes on their car they cannot go to the mechanic and say "I've no income so you cannot expect me to pay for a new clutch". So it must be with fines.

Yes, but what process would they go through? The guidelines they work to are constructed in terms of income, not wealth, so how should they determine the appropriate fine?


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NewJudge
post Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 23:16
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By making an assessment of his nominal income or of what he can afford bearing in mind his lifestyle. It may not be accurate in which case he can appeal the sentence and provide some argument why the assessment is wrong. Yes, the guidelines are based around income because 99.9% of the time that is appropriate and practical. If it isn't the Bench must exercise their discretion and arrive at a penalty by other means. The guidance already gives some idea of an approach where the defendant has a small income or is wholly dependent on another for his expenses. A similar approach can be used where a defendant relies entirely on wealth.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 - 23:17
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The Rookie
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 01:39
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Noting that on the MC100 form it asks if you are the ‘registered owner’ of the car, so if someone claiming to have a minimal income has a £200,000 cars it’s a bit suspicious.

Typical governmental ineptness though as no-one is the registered owner of any car so no one can actually tick it anyway.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 02:12


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ktfsh
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 09:15
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hi all now you see my problem lol
he doesnt have a car, he uses mine
also the speeding ticket was on a hire car which i paid for as i needed mine at the time
his parents pay for everything when hes there
and frankly i pay for everything when hes here
literally his only income is from birthday and xmas
i want the easiest way through this.,would it be easier to simply put his income as 0 my income as his partner even tho i dont live at same address?
btw it does ask on the form we got about owning the car which he didnt as its a hire car
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The Rookie
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 10:31
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DO NOT tick the box, he isn't the owner and could never be the registered owner.

If his income is zero, then that's what you use. They will use the nominal minimum salary.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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ktfsh
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 12:21
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it says are you the registered owner of the vehicle and a yes or no box to tick so id be ticking no one

thankyou smile.gif

This post has been edited by ktfsh: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 12:32
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Jlc
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 12:46
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The registered owner is an interesting question. There is no registry of owners?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ktfsh
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 13:22
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in the witness statement part it was stated that the original NIP was sent to the registered known keeper , which was the hire company
then it says as a result of nominations a second NIP was sent out and thats the one which went to the driver at the time
so when all this gets to the court bit they will see then he wasnt the actual owner, but its simply a part of the form under personal details
vehicle reg to fill in and then are you the owner etc
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southpaw82
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 13:39
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If there’s a guilty plea the court won’t see the witness statements.


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NewJudge
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:30
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This is getting exceedingly complex!

In Section 4 of the form MC100 there is a space and above it is written this:

Please add any other information (for example any assets not mentioned above) you believe the court should know about here.

That should simply be completed with "The defendant has no income and no outgoings and his entire lifestyle and existence is funded by others" (or words to that effect). The court will then make such assumptions as it thinks fit and calculate what they believe to be an appropriate fine in all the circumstances. Job Done!
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Fredd
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:37
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:30) *
This is getting exceedingly complex!

In Section 4 of the form MC100 there is a space and above it is written this:

Please add any other information (for example any assets not mentioned above) you believe the court should know about here.

That should simply be completed with "The defendant has no income and no outgoings and his entire lifestyle and existence is funded by others" (or words to that effect). The court will then make such assumptions as it thinks fit and calculate what they believe to be an appropriate fine in all the circumstances. Job Done!

So the court should impose a fine knowing that the only way it can be paid is if it falls to an innocent third party? Funny notion of justice.


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ktfsh
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 15:12
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thanks Judge
and yup its gonna fall on a third party anyways ie me lol
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NewJudge
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 16:45
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:37) *
So the court should impose a fine knowing that the only way it can be paid is if it falls to an innocent third party? Funny notion of justice.

The alternative would be to impose a fine based on a multiple of the defendant's income - i.e. £0.

It seems here that an innocent Third Party has taken it on himself to bankroll the defendant's motoring. The cost of motoring for any motorist includes capital outlay, fuel, tax, insurance, maintenance and any fines accrued. If somebody is altruistic enough to meet all the running costs of motoring for another individual they must expect to shell out a bit for fines now and again if their charge commits any offences. I really don't see any alternative. If the burden becomes too great it may cause them to review their position.
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blackcross
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 18:36
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 14:37) *
So the court should impose a fine knowing that the only way it can be paid is if it falls to an innocent third party? Funny notion of justice.


Not at all. There is a strong suggestion that someone is providing the driver with “walking about money”, in which case he can reasonably be expected to pony up some of that and agree a payment plan when sentenced.

If his funders are not providing walking about money, or the driver decides he has a better use for that money than paying his fine, costs and VS he risks a short sentence in lieu, like other defaulters.

Either way there is no reason why an additional burden should fall on innocent third party funders.
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ktfsh
post Wed, 29 Jan 2020 - 17:59
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heck this was hard to find again lol
so latest was a letter saying notice of proposed driving disqualification and its going to court which was dated today and not to drive after today until he hears back etc,
checked online for his licence but nothing is showing up
how long does the online license record take to update and or how long til we get some letter with whats happening
thanks

This post has been edited by ktfsh: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 - 18:24
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ktfsh
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 16:40
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Hi so after getting a £569 fine and 6 points there is no mention of whether the licence needs to be sent off to have the points added
does this need to be done? or is it only if there is a ban

thanks in advance
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ktfsh
post Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 14:42
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Mods you may aswell close this thread now as its all finished with and no ones responding any more anyways lol
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The Rookie
post Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 14:48
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Threads don’t normally get closed.

They should be asking you to submit your licence for endorsement (even though nothing happens to it these days), phone the court and ask.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 16:04
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QUOTE (ktfsh @ Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 14:42) *
Mods you may aswell close this thread now as its all finished with and no ones responding any more anyways lol

A whole 22 hours without a response. You should ask for your money back.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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ktfsh
post Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 16:22
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 16:04) *
QUOTE (ktfsh @ Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 14:42) *
Mods you may aswell close this thread now as its all finished with and no ones responding any more anyways lol

A whole 22 hours without a response. You should ask for your money back.

i was teasing and messing hense the lol, but if you want to be serious I had posted a question on the 29th Jan and then another one more recently ,Mr Sarky !!

The Rookie, ty for responding , i wasnt sure how they do it re the threads but noticed some threads show resolved so just meant for them to do that really as its all over and done with now
,I did how ever contact the court and they have said we dont need to send the licence in as its all electronic now and just to wait a few days for it to show up online. so its all changed now with the new system

but thankyou for your help smile.gif
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