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SIP Parking Claim Form, County Court Claim Form
flossykazzie
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:03
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Hi All

A friend of mine has received in the post today a Claim form from County Court Business Centre Northampton, the claimant is SIP Parking Manchester the claimant is Haseeb Anwar.

They have set out the following reason:-

The driver and/or registered keep of vehicle registration ------- incurred the parking charge on the relevant land at -------- for vehicle not permitted & grace period exceeded. The charge was incurred as the terms of the contract were breached and it is stated on the contract that should there be a breach a parking charge will be incurred to the sum of £100, subject to discount for prompt payment. The claimant seeks recovery of the sums due under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 S56 Schedule 4. The parking charge was issued at ---- on ---- under the notice reference of ----------. The amount claimed is for the contractually agreed sum of £100, debt damage costs of £60, plus court fees.

No communication has gone on between the 2 parties, a defence will go in that the meter was out of order at the time, but no photo evidence to support this defence.

Any advice please as how to proceed.



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post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:03
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Redx
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:12
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No pictures or evidence are submitted with any defence, I suggest that all interested parties read posts 5 and 2 in this thread over on mse parking forum, which explains the process

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discus...-first-thankyou

Host redacted pictures of both sides of the pcn and pictures of the signage on site too plus a redacted picture of the front of the claim form, leaving all dates showing , hosted on postimg or imgbb or a similar hosting site and add links

The defendant should email a SAR to the DPO at the claimant parking company SIP Parking attaching a copy of the claim form plus copies of 2 recent redacted utility bills as proof of I D under the GDPR law to obtain all their data, including documents and pictures etc

Then do the AOS online after 5 days following the issue date on the claim form, then start drafting the defence by adapting the defence template by coupon mad over on mse parking forum

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The Rookie
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:17
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QUOTE (flossykazzie @ Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 13:03) *
the claimant is SIP Parking Manchester the claimant is Haseeb Anwar.

Eh?


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Jlc
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:21
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QUOTE (flossykazzie @ Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 13:03) *
No communication has gone on between the 2 parties, a defence will go in that the meter was out of order at the time, but no photo evidence to support this defence.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying nothing was received in relation to this alleged charge or were they ignored?

The meter being out of order will not be a defence. If you driver could not comply then they are expected to leave - they are not entitled to 'free' parking.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:29
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 13:21) *
If you driver could not comply then they are expected to leave - they are not entitled to 'free' parking.

That does depend on the nature of the car park, as an example a guest at a hotel which is advertised as having parking available cannot then be a guest without that parking so they certainly shouldn't then be required to pay an inflated charge to get their stay.

In a simple P&D car park though, I would agree.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Redx
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 12:44
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It's worth noting that SIP usually file their own claims, so the name mentioned is possibly the person who issued the claim on behalf of SIP parking

Most if not all SIP sites are pay and display ( or possibly pay by app), or leave promptly

Their letters must have gone somewhere, so the defendant better check that their V5c has the correct address on it and change it online if its an old address. ( the usual reason for missing letters, errors by the defendant, not updating their V5c promptly.)
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flossykazzie
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 13:52
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Hi all
The claim form had the name Haeeb Anwar at the bottom of the form, he must be the owner of SIP Parking.
To clarify, my friend did not receive anything from this company prior to the claim form arriving today, which does have the correct address on it, so has not been able to defend this action, no Claom before Court Action or anything.
So to defend this claim it has to be on the lines of unclear signage being displayed etc and not the machine was not working at the time.
I will do some homework and post here before submotting anything to the court.
Does anybody know if SIP have been successful in their court cases??

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The Rookie
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 14:01
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QUOTE (flossykazzie @ Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 14:52) *
Does anybody know if SIP have been successful in their court cases??

Well clearly they get default wins and will usually win against an inept defence.

Has he checked the V5c yet?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Redx
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 14:03
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The problems of all the missing paperwork is more likely due to what I said earlier, because SIP would have obtained keeper details from the dvla database and sent the letters to that address, as usual. So if the defendant had moved and not updated the V5c promptly then it's probabky their fault that they received no paperwork, not SIPs

A SAR to the DPO at the claimant parking company SIP should show where the letters went. You haven't told us if their V5c is correct or not, or if they had moved or not, but it's likely that they are at fault here, not SIP

Obviously the claim form went to the current address, nobody is disputing that, they probably traced the current address, normal practice

Not receiving paperwork is no defence, especially when it's usually self inflicted due to not updating the dvla

That person you mentioned could be an employee of SIP, so you cannot assume that they are the owner, so let's just say they are a representative of SIP

SIP parking have been successful in a few civil court cases at Manchester court and are a local firm, usually representing themselves in court

This post has been edited by Redx: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 14:08
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flossykazzie
post Wed, 7 Jun 2023 - 22:39
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After further discussions with my friend he categorically denies having any correspondence from SIP prior to receiving the claim form. The address they have is correct so we do not know where the previous paperwork has gone.
The other problem is that my friend cannot remember exactly where the car park is as it was in a different city that they were visiting and that was 2 years ago so cannot check the signage.
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DWMB2
post Wed, 7 Jun 2023 - 22:44
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QUOTE (flossykazzie @ Wed, 7 Jun 2023 - 23:39) *
The address they have is correct

Has he physically checked his car's V5C document? The fact that they have the correct address now does not mean they did originally (We're not trying to be pedantic by labouring this point, but it's worth making 100% sure - we've seen endless cases on here of people swearing blind that their V5C is correct, only to check it and realise it is not)

QUOTE (flossykazzie @ Wed, 7 Jun 2023 - 23:39) *
The other problem is that my friend cannot remember exactly where the car park is

He needs to submit the aforementioned Subject Access Request as soon as possible. Amongst other things this should specify where the parking event took place.


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Redx
post Wed, 7 Jun 2023 - 22:45
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Not receiving paperwork is no defence

If the claimant parking company SIP posted the letters to the address on the dvla database, they have fulfilled their obligations, the letters are presumed delivered 2 working days later

A SAR will show those documents, plus where they were sent, and when

SIP appear to be a lot more evidence than the defendant
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hcandersen
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 08:07
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OP, we must see the claim form. As you will have to post the other notices which are received under the SAR you should find out how this is done now pl. See FAQs.

The date of the breach was?
On that date the keeper's address on their V5C (therefore the DVLA database) was? NB. not their driving licence, their V5C.
If the address and V5C have changed subsequently pl provide details.

As the recipient of the claim form hasn't corresponded with the claimant then they should not imply who was driving until we've seen
their notices.
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flossykazzie
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 08:41
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The address on the V5C is correct, he has checked it.

The date of the breach on the claim form is 20/11/2021 and it says "on the relevant land at New City House Nottingham" I have looked on Google Street view and can see a car park on Spaniel Row next to Minerva House, I think it is that one, you can see small signs on the wall as you go in the car park, not very visible when entering in the dark.

SIP are claiming the costs under PoFa and state they are claiming from the driver and/or RK of the vehicle, can they say both under PoFa??

It does seem that SIP have a lot more evidence than the defendant, I think sometimes these things overwhelm people and when court is mentioned it terrifies them, and they think the easiest way out is to pay it.

He did mention to call the court and discuss if he could pay the £100, then that is admitting it and no point in trying to defend it.

This post has been edited by flossykazzie: Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 08:52
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DWMB2
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 08:46
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QUOTE
He did mention to call the court and discuss if he could pay the £100, I personally do not think that is good advice

The court aren't involved in negotiations. If he wants to negotiate a settlement he should do that with SIP, and definitely not by phone (as he'd have no reliable record of the discussion). Any offer should be made in writing, and marked "Without Prejudice Save as to Costs".


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Redx
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 08:51
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It's not a court, it's a government office dealing with the MCOL system, they do the initial paperwork until they pass it to the local nominated court that the defendant will state on their N180 DQ form, a few weeks after the defence is filed

They definitely will not discuss the case and have no powers to do so, it's just a set of deadlines and tick boxes for them, they are just office staff, Civil servants

The defendant could negotiate with the claimant, SIP parking by email or postal letter, , or can argue their case in front of a judge in civil court, or pay in full to get SIP to discontinue

There are no other options or choices here, so he needs to get with the game and not grasping at straws that don't exist

They can use pofa to make the keeper liable if they followed pofa, they can also pursue the driver, regardless, especially if the keeper was also the driver and more so if they do or did travel to Nottingham

It's unusual for SIP to be involved in Nottingham, they tend to be prevalent around Manchester, where they are based. ( they usually do their own litigation too.)


Your lack of posting redacted pictures isn't helping, we don't even know if the friend has acknowledged the claim form or emailed the SAR, or started drafting the defence yet

This post has been edited by Redx: Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 08:54
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flossykazzie
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 09:26
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I am trying to get the info from my friend to post here, it isn't easy as he has 3 very young children, no excuse I know.

All I know so far is that the claim has not been acknowledged yet and the issue date of the claim was 2nd June, so time is running out, also he has not sent off for the SAR, or even started drafting a defence yet.

I have explained to him that the pay machine not working is no defence, also not receiving the paperwork from SIP is no defence and if he does want to defend this claim then he will have to do it on points like the poor signage to the entrance to the car park and such like.

So just to be clear, if he does chose to go the defence way he has to acknowledge the claim online and then follow the advice regarding time scales and submit his defence within 28 days, is there a possibility of SIP backing down and not pursuing it to court, I think it is that part that is terrifying him.
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Redx
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 09:38
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The deadline day depends on the date the AOS is completed, but is NO MORE than 33 days after the issue date on the claim form, so if that date was 2nd June, the deadline could be 4pm on day 33 after the issue date, so early July, so ideally do the AOS online tomorrow or today, or next week at the latest, so before the 20th

The SAR should be done already, so ideally today

Then they start drafting the defence

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that SIP will take this all the way to a hearing in court, which is the nearest civil court to the defendant, especially if its Manchester or Stockport etc

This post has been edited by Redx: Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 09:55
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hcandersen
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 10:53
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OP, sorry to go on about this, but 'The address on the V5C is correct, he has checked it.' doesn't answer the question fully.

We know the event date - 20 Nov. 2021.

So, was the respondent's address the same then as it is now?

A creditor can only write to the addressee supplied by DVLA as being the keeper on the day. However, once we move from parking and Code of Practice-related matters to issuing court proceedings then the claimant may use whatever address they have reason to believe the respondent occupies i.e. they may arrange to trace through other means. This could explain matters...perhaps.
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