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Incorrect Number Plate on PCN - Should we still appeal?
liquidcool
post Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 20:30
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Hi all,

We received a PCN from UKPC but the vehicle registration that they put on the ticket is incorrect. Instead of a number 0 it has the letter O. So when putting the correct reg in the appeals site it says invalid PCR or Vehicle Reg.

Should we still appeal the ticket or can we leave it?

Thanks in advance.
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post Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 20:30
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Jlc
post Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 20:34
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What was the ticket issued for?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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liquidcool
post Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 20:41
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For not parking within correct markings of a bay. Should state actaully we didn't receive the ticket (as in the post) but it was placed on the vehicle on site. Apologies for that.

This post has been edited by liquidcool: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 20:42
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Dave65
post Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 21:30
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Have you got photos of the bay markings showing the vehicle?
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liquidcool
post Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 21:57
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I don't have, but at the time we where not parked in a bay, hence the ticket.

But this is not the issue. The issue is whether or not we should even attempt an appeal when the Reg on the ticket is not the same as the vehicle.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 03:39
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So you wait for the postal Notice to Keeper which you will appeal as the keeper (do not make any suggestion on here, or in any appeal as to the driver's ID), the NtK cannot match the notice to driver (different reg number) so the keeper can never be liable, come back when you have the NTK to get sort out the wording for the appeal.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Albert Ross
post Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 06:34
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Could you get a screenshot showing that the [correct] VRM is not found on their site.
Then have a look for a POPLA assessment where an appeal was denied because of an input of an I for 1 or O for 0 has been used.

Using those amalgamated would show that the Notice to driver does not match the Notice to Keeper when it arrives. Therefore it is not POFA compliant and that they should take it up with the driver.

If you appeal now, the VRM is irrelevant as they are dealing with the driver that transgressed while parking.
If the keeper appeals the NTK There is no clue as to the identity of the Driver.

The driver gave the NTD to the Keeper.
The Keeper tried to appeal the NTD but couldn't
The NTK arrives, where it will be dealt with accordingly.

Always use third person terms to prevent slipping up.


--------------------
The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk.
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liquidcool
post Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 12:49
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How can a NTK be sent when the VRM is not correct. Surely NTK gets sent when UKPC gets the details from the DVLA? and with an incorrect VRM the DVLA won't have those details. So on that assumption no NTK would/should arrive ?
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localdriver
post Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 15:51
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It has been known for parking companies to use it as a deliberate ploy, hoping the driver will contact them, and appeal, pointing out the error. Unfortunately, in the details of the appeal, they divulge who the driver was and so lose the keeper liability defence in the Protection of Freedoms Act - and it will also save the registered keeper enquiry fee to the DVLA. Surprise, Surprise, even if they don't contact the parking company, when the letter to keeper arrives, it has the correct registration mark.

This post has been edited by localdriver: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 16:31
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liquidcool
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 13:42
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We have received a NTK from UKPC. They seem to have realised their mistake and reissued a corrected PCN.

What should our next steps be ?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 13:46
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Please be precise by what you mean about a "reissued" PCN - Notice to Keeper

Does it allege they can claim from the Keeper using POFA? Yes or No

If Yes then they ahve a bit of an issue, as theyre NOT allowed to claim this; the first NtK was invalid as it did not specify the correct vehicle. This NtK is too late to hold the Keeper liable.
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liquidcool
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 14:04
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It says:
"This parking charge notice supercedes <previous pcn> which has been reissued"

We have a whole new PCN on this letter.

Looks like they went to the DVLA to get the details of the vehicle because the colour they had on the original PCN is different to the one on this PCN.

There is nothing mentioning POFA.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 14:13
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Does it state the right to recover from the keeper, anywhere?

I presume you had a windscreen ticket on the car? Yes or No
If Yes, then easy appeal. You will know by now the NtK and NtD MUST match.
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liquidcool
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 14:17
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Also noticed that on one part of the letter the date for the "Parking Charge" is different to the date on the payment slip, yet the pcn number (new one) it relates to is the same.

It says (on the same letter) :
Parking Charge Date : New Date of reissued PCN
Parking Charge Notice Issue Date : Date of the original PCN


It states :
"If, after a period of 28 days, (beginning with the day after this Notice is given), the amount requested in this Notice has not been paid in full (or we have not been informed of the driver's name and current address) we will pass the charge to a debt recovery"

the original PCN was a windscreen ticket.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 14:34
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Don’t use PCN, there is a Notice to Driver (NtD) and a Notice to Keeper (NtK).

You need a simple BogOff letter.

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am in receipt of PCN number XXXXXXX

I note that the notice does not invoke keeper liability by meeting the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such only the driver could be liable for any charge.

As such I suggest you contact the driver. For the avoidance of doubt I will not be naming the driver at the time of the parking event.

As keeper I have no liability and suggest you cancel this charge or provide a POPLA code and they can then cancel it for you.

Yours faithfully

sign/name.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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liquidcool
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 15:04
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This is the only other thing it states :
"The driver of the above vehicle breached the terms and conditions of the parking which were clearly and prominently displayed on our car park signs. These terms and conditions were agreed by the driver when your vehicle was parked on the private land. We therefore had reasonable cause to obtain your details as you were the Registered Keeper of the vehicle at the time of parking.

The driver is required to pay the parking charge. UK Parking Control Ltd (creditor) do not know the name and address of the driver. We therefore invite you. the Registered keeper, to pay the Parking Charge or provide us with the name and current address of the driver so that we may write to them and request payment; and you should also pass this notice to the driver."

Does this help any more ?

Can we still tell them to take a long walk off a short pier ?
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ostell
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 21:32
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So there was no NTK within 14 days for the correct VRM?

Can you list dates. It's hard without seeing the docs
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liquidcool
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 22:26
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These are the dates:
21/09 - windscreen ticket with wrong VRM
28/10 - Dated for the new PCN - arrived in the post with correct VRM

No communication at all between those dates
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 08:04
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QUOTE (liquidcool @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 22:26) *
28/10 - Dated for the new NtK - arrived in the post with correct VRM

FTFY......


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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ostell
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 09:23
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Why not just a normal out of time response as there is not a corresponding NTD?

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc

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