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section 172 + NIP recieved for speeding
civilchamp1
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:21
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New to this forum and hoping for some advice...

I was caught speeding on the 1st may 2019 on a dual carriage way.....

They have not provided a image of the driver as they said its not clear etc.

They have stated speeds in excess of 70mph.... but have not give an actual figure

I may have been doing 100mph + at the time

So I thought my friend was driving the vehicle I provided his details and let it be. They then sent me a letter 2/3 months later saying the person I gave details off doesn't exist etc and sent me another 172 form to fill out. I realised my father had the vehicle on the day in question and put my fathers details down. My father received the letter and checked at the time and checked his bank statements and it shows he was in a whole different county of the country so wasn't driving the vehicle so I was the most likely driver of the vehicle.

So my father has now received a second letter stating he has 7 days to provide the drivers details or he will be issued court summons for failing to declare drivers details. He is about to fill in the letter with my details and send back right now...

My questions are do they have to send me a summons letter before the 1st November apparently there is some sort of 6 month rule which is a way around the whole case? is this correct?

my other question is why are they not providing the speed and just stating in excess of 70mph on a dual carriage way....

The help would be much appreciated first ticket ever after 10 years of driving
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post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:21
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Jlc
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:37
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QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
I was caught speeding on the 1st may 2019 on a dual carriage way.....

...which seems you do recall who was driving.

QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
They have not provided a image of the driver as they said its not clear etc.

They don't have to. (Nor is one required)

QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
So I thought my friend was driving the vehicle I provided his details and let it be. They then sent me a letter 2/3 months later saying the person I gave details off doesn't exist etc and sent me another 172 form to fill out. I realised my father had the vehicle on the day in question and put my fathers details down. My father received the letter and checked at the time and checked his bank statements and it shows he was in a whole different county of the country so wasn't driving the vehicle so I was the most likely driver of the vehicle.

So my father has now received a second letter stating he has 7 days to provide the drivers details or he will be issued court summons for failing to declare drivers details. He is about to fill in the letter with my details and send back right now...

I would suggest you and your Father see a specialist motoring solicitor immediately. At best you may be able to dig yourself out of this. At worse you could be looking at a Perverting the Course of Justice charge and a potential custodial sentence.

QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
My questions are do they have to send me a summons letter before the 1st November apparently there is some sort of 6 month rule which is a way around the whole case? is this correct?

Proceedings (for s172/speeding) have to be commenced within 6 months of the offence. Each s172 request starts it's own period.

QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
my other question is why are they not providing the speed and just stating in excess of 70mph on a dual carriage way....

They don't have to. The offence is exceeding the prescribed limit - the excess defines how it is processed (course/fixed penalty/court).

QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
The help would be much appreciated first ticket ever after 10 years of driving

It seems you are trying to get yourself in the special part of the forum - here.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 08:41


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 10:00
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You need to start telling the truth ASAFP or far worse awaits you. As you cant even get it straight on here then your chances in a Police interview or in court don't look great.

Worst still if you manged to drag your Dad in as well. I'm sure he'll love you just as much after 6 months jail sentence though........

Seriously, at 27+ years of age you really should know better.

The Police would need to start any proceedings for your likely S172 offence (naming a driver who didn't seem to exist) 6 months and 28 days after that request was served on you.

The deadline for perverting the course of justice will be much later, potentially 2 months plus later, your chosen nom-de-guerre looks rather inappropriate.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 10:07


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NewJudge
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 10:44
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 11:00) *
The deadline for perverting the course of justice will be much later, potentially 2 months plus later, your chosen nom-de-guerre looks rather inappropriate.

There is no deadline for perverting the course of justice as it is an indictable offence and carries a maximum sentence of Life imprisonment.
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blackcross
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 14:52
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The speeding will probably time out now, but you have almost certainly put yourself at the top of the pile for an easy kill for something far more serious. If you continue to play games and attempt to run down the clock when your s172 makes a reappearance I would expect a very uncomfortable interview to follow in short order.

Naming someone who doesn’t exist was a particularly incendiary move, compounded by naming your father. It’s good to see that he has more sense.

This post has been edited by blackcross: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 14:53
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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 15:08
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QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
He is about to fill in the letter with my details and send back right now...
If he has any sense, that's exactly what he'll do. Anything else risks him getting dragged into the mire that you appear to have created. Is that what you want?
You could always pre-empt it by owning up yourself before he replies. Not sure what the police will make of a sudden recollection from you of who was really driving (and your father must still send in his response). If you're very lucky, they could just pursue the original speeding offence - they have about a month from now. Or it could be much worse.
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TonyS
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 15:10
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It's not clear to me exactly what will happen next. Dad returns paperwork naming the OP, who's already returned two responses disclaiming responsibility and naming others. What's the chance that the next step will be s.172 summons for both Dad and the OP?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 15:13
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QUOTE (TonyS @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 16:10) *
What's the chance that the next step will be s.172 summons for both Dad and the OP?

I think an invite to the station for a chat about perverting the course of justice may well come next, unless the OP 'fesses up' to driving ASAFP.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 15:49
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...which is why I suggested taking professional advice on this one.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 16:42
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To be honest if the OP fesses up ASAP, admits he's made a terrible error of judgment and more importantly he does so before the police call him out, there's a better chance they might simply pursue the speeding (if the police manage to start proceedings by Tuesday) or the s172.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 17:02
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 17:42) *
To be honest if the OP fesses up ASAP, admits he's made a terrible error of judgment and more importantly he does so before the police call him out, there's a better chance they might simply pursue the speeding (if the police manage to start proceedings by Tuesday) or the s172.
QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
I was caught speeding on the 1st may 2019 on a dual carriage way.....
No, they've got another month.

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cp8759
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 18:45
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 18:02) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 17:42) *
To be honest if the OP fesses up ASAP, admits he's made a terrible error of judgment and more importantly he does so before the police call him out, there's a better chance they might simply pursue the speeding (if the police manage to start proceedings by Tuesday) or the s172.
QUOTE (civilchamp1 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 09:21) *
I was caught speeding on the 1st may 2019 on a dual carriage way.....
No, they've got another month.

So they do, meaning that if the OP doesn't mess about, he might get away with just a speeding conviction.


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andy_foster
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 19:15
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 11:00) *
You need to start telling the truth ASAFP or far worse awaits you. As you cant even get it straight on here then your chances in a Police interview or in court don't look great.


Whilst the OP's 'mistaken' nominations do appear to be somewhat suspect, and the old adage "when you're in a hole, stop digging" may well be applicable, if the OP were to come to a realisation that he was driving after all, it might not be in his best interests to volunteer much more truth than that.


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Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Sep 2019 - 20:29
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Sorry that’s what I was saying, start telling the truth as to who was driving, not that any mistaken nomination, may not have been a mistake.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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civilchamp1
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:16
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Before you all jump to 1001 conclusions.

I honestly didn't know who the driver was I didn't recall who it was as. I have access to a few vehicles and my vehicle is driven by many people also. I wouldn't lie to the police as perverting the course of justice is a bigger crime then the speeding itself!!!! ​

So my father filled in the s172 reminded letter stating my details and sent it off. As looking through our bank statements I used a cash machine near the route of the speeding incident.​

5 days after sending it off the police force called my father asking what was going on and my father told them what had happened and they said they would send me out a letter another s172 if I fail to reply they would investigate the matter of perverting the course of justice. As my father had provided my details as well as a statement attached stating what had happened in regards to the drivers mix up they will now be pursuing me for speeding in excess of 70mph on a dual carriage way. ​

What is the likely outcome if the speeds where in excess of 100mph?​

Also the alleged offence took place on the 1st may if I don't get court summons before the 1st November Is the offence dropped?
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cp8759
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:26
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The police must start file the paperwork with the court by November 1st but they can take one or two weeks beyond that to serve it on you. For 100+ you're looking at either 6 points and a fine or a short ban.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:26


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The Rookie
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:43
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If the speeding times out they have at least a month longer to summons you for the S172 offence you committed when naming the wrong driver (erm, twice), while that carries the same 6 points and a similar fine, insurance companies tend to penalise it more severely.

Given you appear to have named a person who doesn't exist and then someone who wasn't driving, even if it was an innocent mistake (or two) I'm not sure a court will be easily convinced so I'd not be angling for a timeout in your situation.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 15:14
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 15:26) *
For 100+ you're looking at either 6 points and a fine or a short ban.

More precisely, for a guilty plea. It would be a fine around 1 week's relevant income, costs of £85, surcharge of 10% of the fine (min. of £30).

Assuming it 's just over 100mph then 6 points is the most likely outcome but a short ban is possible. (Say 2-3 weeks)

If it's 110mph+ then a ban is more likely, possibly in excess of 3 weeks.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 15:16


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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blackcross
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 17:46
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The police have already made clear that they are fed up of the games. Action for perverting the course of justice is not subject to a six month limit, so it is very much in your interest to ensure this does NOT timeout.

If it does I don’t give much for your chances of avoiding the PCoJ.
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cp8759
post Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 18:42
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QUOTE (blackcross @ Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 18:46) *
The police have already made clear that they are fed up of the games. Action for perverting the course of justice is not subject to a six month limit, so it is very much in your interest to ensure this does NOT timeout.

If it does I don’t give much for your chances of avoiding the PCoJ.

Quite, if the case times out due to false information being provided, you're looking at a likely prison sentence.


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