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Fixed Penalty Issue, FPN letter received
Lamboguy
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 19:10
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I received a fixed penalty number letter today (06/06/19) letter was dated 04/06/19

The above named person was seen driving a motor vehicle registration ..... at 21:30 hours on 22/05/19 at ...... you were reported for an offence of:-

Speeding - motor vehicle exceed 70 mph on a dual carriageway - manned equipment.

Due to the nature of the offence the matter will now have to be referred to the magistrates court.

You can expect to receive notification of this in due course.

Just wondering the way forward now.

I was pulled by an unmarked car which was hidden on side of the road (did not see him, no high vis etc and sat in car with the laser gun)

Apparently officers that are performing speed checks must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check.

He indicated I was doing 96 no pics taken of the car though and told me he was going to report me for the speeding offence, also stated that it would be the usual 3 points and fine.

There is no indication of what speed I was doing on the letter, Should I reply noting the 14day time rule, ask for evidence etc or just wait it out for the court summons?

Currently clean licence so wondering what I might end up with, I'm thinking 6 points and a fine of 125% of my weekly wage not sure about disqualification



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post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 19:10
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southpaw82
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 19:32
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:10) *
Apparently officers that are performing speed checks must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check.


That’s not correct and never has been.

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Should I reply noting the 14day time rule

When you were stopped did they tell you that you might be prosecuted? If so, the 14 day rule is irrelevant.


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Lamboguy
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:31
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The operator must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check.

This is a quote from ACPO Traffic Enforcement Guidelines
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southpaw82
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:38
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 21:31) *
The operator must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check.

This is a quote from ACPO Traffic Enforcement Guidelines

Whatever dude, you clearly know better rolleyes.gif

Take it to court and use that defence, I’m sure you’ll be fine.


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Lamboguy
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:47
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The officer ate the time also did not state that I might be prosecuted he stated it would be 3 points and a fine so why the letter stating court proceedings?
But in court this statement might not stand..
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southpaw82
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:50
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 21:47) *
The officer ate the time also did not state that I might be prosecuted he stated it would be 3 points and a fine so why the letter stating court proceedings?
But in court this statement might not stand..

So long as it was clear that you might be prosecuted then the requirement under s 1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 has been complied with. It’s not possible to give you a definitive answer without knowing exactly what was said or, more pertinently, what evidence he would give in court.

Presumably the court proceedings are because you were too fast for an FPN.


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Lamboguy
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 21:00
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apparently the cut off for fpn is 96 so if I was doing 95 I would have got the fpn

Will see what happens over the next couple of weeks
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NewJudge
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 21:32
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 22:00) *
apparently the cut off for fpn is 96 so if I was doing 95 I would have got the fpn

And, of course, if my uncle had boobs he'd be my aunt! biggrin.gif
QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 22:00) *
Will see what happens over the next couple of weeks

If this is true:
QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:10) *
Due to the nature of the offence the matter will now have to be referred to the magistrates court.

You can expect to receive notification of this in due course.

You can expect very little to happen in the next couple of weeks. They have six months from the date of the alleged offence to begin court action and very often take all of that. The next you will probably hear will be a "Single Justice Procedure Notice" and it may be late November before you get that.

BTW the ACPO no longer exists. It was replaced by the National Police Chiefs' Council on 1st April 2015.
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Logician
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 23:13
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:31) *
The operator must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check. This is a quote from ACPO Traffic Enforcement Guidelines


Guidelines from 1993, issued by an organisation that no longer exists in respect of technology that is no longer used, were only ever guidelines and failure by the police to follow them would never have been an effective defence, so do not get your hopes up that it will be 26 years later.

QUOTE
The officer at the time also did not state that I might be prosecuted he stated it would be 3 points and a fine so why the letter stating court proceedings?


Either the officer did not know the cut-off point for a fixed penalty or more likely he was minimising the likely consequences in the interests of avoiding a roadside confrontation, we have seen this many times.



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The Rookie
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 03:06
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:10) *
I received a fixed penalty number letter today

No you didn't, whatever you got it wasn't that, which perhaps calls into question your ability to recall whatever the officer said at the time.

The ACPO guideline related to the safety of the officer performing the checks......


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TryOut
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 07:44
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 21:31) *
The operator must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check.

This is a quote from ACPO Traffic Enforcement Guidelines

If you are going to quote the police's own guidance back at them you need to find one that is current. ACPO were dissolved in 2010 as I recall and in 2010 the guidance you mention had already been replaced. It is now 2019 and there is no requirement for a police officer or police staff to pre-warn drivers that their speed will be measured.

Well, you shoudl be pre-warned in any case as it is quite plain that the police are allowed to measure your speed whenever they like and do so without being seen. You have and I would say were warned.
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Lamboguy
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 08:14
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 04:06) *
QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:10) *
I received a fixed penalty number letter today

No you didn't, whatever you got it wasn't that, which perhaps calls into question your ability to recall whatever the officer said at the time.

The ACPO guideline related to the safety of the officer performing the checks......


The letter I received quoted a FIXED PENALTY NUMBER and date of OFFENCE I have not received a NIP or anything like that, I have not been issued with a NIP or A FPN.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 09:40
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OK, it says what it says, the fact you didn't get an FPN is still irrelevant. Clearly it's meant as a reference.


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Logician
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 10:53
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QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 08:14) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 04:06) *
QUOTE (Lamboguy @ Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 20:10) *
I received a fixed penalty number letter today
No you didn't, whatever you got it wasn't that, which perhaps calls into question your ability to recall whatever the officer said at the time. The ACPO guideline related to the safety of the officer performing the checks......
The letter I received quoted a FIXED PENALTY NUMBER and date of OFFENCE I have not received a NIP or anything like that, I have not been issued with a NIP or A FPN.


You did not need to be issued with a NIP since you were warned by the officer at the time that you would be considered for prosecution. What you received, whatever it called itself, was information that the offence was not appropriate for a fixed penalty, presumably because the speed was above the level at which a fixed penalty is given, so the offence will be dealt with by a court. That does not need you have to attend, proved you plead guilty it can all be done by post. If the speed is indeed 96 in a 70 limit, the guideline suggests 5 points and a fine equivalent to your net weekly income, less 33% discount for a guilty plea, plus 10% surcharge (min. £30), plus £85 costs.

Do not kid yourself there is some easy way to make this go away, there isn't.



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Ocelot
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 17:48
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I'm sure someone will mention the hidden camera inside a horse box a few years ago soon, which was legal IIRC.
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SatNavSam
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 20:56
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 18:48) *
I'm sure someone will mention the hidden camera inside a horse box a few years ago soon, which was legal IIRC.


If you insist........

There was a horse trailer used by North Wales Police to hide a speed camera in, some years ago to catch speeding motorists........
tongue.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by SatNavSam: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 20:56


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Logician
post Fri, 7 Jun 2019 - 23:29
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And HERE it is.


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Redivi
post Sat, 8 Jun 2019 - 09:01
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Just asking for somebody to feed them some hay
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