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76 in a 40, speeding
sound
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:20
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I was caught speeding last year on the 17/11/17 doing 76 in a 40 on a dual carriage way. it was just before it went into a 60mph limit (yes i know i would have still been speeding) and now almost 6 months later after admitting to driving i have the court papers finally come through. Im looking at up to a £923 fine 6 points and a disqualification for 7 - 56 days. The letter they have sent includes the picture and you can not see who was driving. The car was registered in my name and address however i have sold it now. The letter also states that i can plead guilty or not guilty, if i plead guilty it states on the letter that the fines are normally reduced by 33% and that i have the option to attend court which i think is wrong as they are trying to bribe you to plead guilty in my opinion. I have just bought my first home this year and i cannot afford to loose my licence as i will not be able to afford taxis to work and let alone insurance. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
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post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:20
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Jlc
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:41
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Not much to say really. The picture is to identify the vehicle and the alleged offence and not the driver, but you have already admitted driving?

For that excess you will be attending court, presumably you have a SJPN? You can try a postal plea but chances are it will revert to a normal court hearing to consider a ban.

Without a defence, pleading anything other than guilty will be even more expensive.

With a guilty plea the fine is reduced by 33% (So around 1 week's earnings, but this excess may lean them towards a higher fine), £85 costs and a surcharge of 10% of the fine. It's either points OR a ban, not both. But I'm afraid I would be expecting a ban of around a month and anything less a bonus.

QUOTE (sound @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:20) *
...as they are trying to bribe you to plead guilty in my opinion.

See above - I don't see any 'bribe'.

QUOTE (sound @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:20) *
The car was registered in my name and address however i have sold it now.

I don't see much relevance unless it was a 'powerful' car which you've sold to show some 'remorse' about your excess.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:59


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:06
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It should nto be points AND a ban
Work out which is better for you - you might be able to steer them towards it. If 6 points would take you to 12, then a short ban would obviuously be better than the 6 months totting ban, but the mags have guidance to NOT do this and apply the 6 points instead.

See what others suggest.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:12
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The photo is to identify the vehicle, not the driver. They have the evidence they need to show who was driving as you told them.

You may term it a bribe but defendants facing any criminal charge are normally granted a one third discount for if they plead guilty.

I don’t know how you got the figure of £923 but (assuming you plead guilty) you face a fine of a week’s net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £30) and £85 costs. I think you need to make arrangements to cope with a ban. Consideration for a ban begins at 56mph so you well into that territory. At almost twice the limit I believe a ban is all but inevitable. You will be asked to attend court as you should not be banned in your absence before giving you an opportunity to attend.
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sound
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:26
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Yes from what I have looked up it should be points or a ban my mistake. and obviously there isn't much i can do. On the letter it gives me the option to attend court or not if i plead guilty. Would it be any help if i go to court and plead guilty to try and show some remorse and maybe reduce what ever they will give me? or would it be a waste of time and shall I just let them come to the verdict without me attending?

I got the £923 from one of the online speed ticket calculators
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Jlc
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:37
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QUOTE (sound @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:26) *
...shall I just let them come to the verdict without me attending?

As above, they normally won't consider a ban without your attendance - if you want to get it over with quickly then you can ask to bypass the SJP and go to a normal hearing which is inevitable anyway. They will listen to you and it may mitigate slightly.

QUOTE (sound @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:26) *
I got the £923 from one of the online speed ticket calculators

The fine itself should not be this high, but with costs and surcharge it may lift it back up again. This obviously wasn't a motorway so the maximum should be around £600.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:38


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sound
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:32
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Ok thank you everyone for you knowledge and help. From peoples experience / knowledge, what is worse in terms of insurance a ban or 9 points (I currently have another 3 points which i got at the start of last year)

This post has been edited by sound: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:32
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Jlc
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:52
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It's hard to tell but running some 'dummy' quotes may give you a feel. Remember, you need to check your particular T+C's to see when they need notification, some only at renewal.

Generally a ban would likely be loaded more than points.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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agtlaw
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 10:23
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:12) *
... You will be asked to attend court as you should not be banned in your absence before giving you an opportunity to attend.


Not quite. In a SJPN case, D may receive a notice of proposed driving disqualification - a date is set for immediate disqualification without attending court. The options on the form are as follows:

A) No further information. I have no further information to give to the court and want the court to proceed in my absence. I understand that I may be disqualified on or after [date] and should not drive from that date until the result is confirmed by the court

B) I want to attend court. I wish to give more information to the court and request a hearing date to be set. I am unable to attend court on the following dates: [list avoid dates]
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sound
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:03
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Ok so even if i choose not to go to court i can still get a ban. So all i can do is wait and see.

Thanks everyone for your advice and knowledge
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Jlc
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:19
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Yes, but anecdotally most seem to revert to a normal court hearing where you attend (or at least be aware of the hearing). The point being is that you must be aware of the ban as it's immediate. (So don't drive to court)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 12:36
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QUOTE (agtlaw @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:23) *
Not quite. In a SJPN case, D may receive a notice of proposed driving disqualification - a date is set for immediate disqualification without attending court.


Indeed. However, the policy in many areas (I can't say how many because I don't know) is that Single Justices do not normally impose disqualifications. Cases where disqualification is considered are listed for the normal court. I believe this is because there were numerous instances where defendants were disqualified in absence and, despite the SJ papers warning " I understand that I may be disqualified...etc" defendants claimed to have no knowledge of their ban and it led to complications.
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agtlaw
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 13:14
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 13:36) *
QUOTE (agtlaw @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 11:23) *
Not quite. In a SJPN case, D may receive a notice of proposed driving disqualification - a date is set for immediate disqualification without attending court.


Indeed. However, the policy in many areas (I can't say how many because I don't know) is that Single Justices do not normally impose disqualifications. Cases where disqualification is considered are listed for the normal court. I believe this is because there were numerous instances where defendants were disqualified in absence and, despite the SJ papers warning " I understand that I may be disqualified...etc" defendants claimed to have no knowledge of their ban and it led to complications.


You've described the old protocol. New system (introduced earlier this year) is outlined here and here. It appears to be a national protocol, but I can't be absolutely certain of that.



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Jlc
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 13:21
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Ok, we should see this going forwards. SP did point out previously that bans were possible this way in the legislation but it appears they have a process for it too now...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 15:41
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QUOTE (agtlaw @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 14:14) *
You've described the old protocol. New system (introduced earlier this year) is outlined here and here. It appears to be a national protocol, but I can't be absolutely certain of that.

The descriptions are provided by two lawyers who seemingly specialise in defending motorists and their explanations are correct. As far as I am aware there has always been the provision for Single Justices to disqualify in absence and not much has changed since the SJ procedure was introduced. However, as far as I know (and my most recent knowledge of this issue was two weeks ago today) there is at least one large area of the country where Single Justices do not routinely disqualify drivers but instead refer the matter to a full court hearing. This applies to disqualifications for "totting" as well as discretionary bans for a single offence. I don't believe (but could not be sure) that there are any plans to change that policy.
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agtlaw
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 20:20
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 16:41) *
The descriptions are provided by two lawyers who seemingly specialise in defending motorists and their explanations are correct. As far as I am aware there has always been the provision for Single Justices to disqualify in absence and not much has changed since the SJ procedure was introduced.


Your opinion appears to be based on very limited experience. Perhaps of a single area? That's not a criticism by the way. My practise isn't limited to a single area.

There's a new protocol in place. Things have changed. There are various places where your description was until a few months ago, correct. If I had the time then I could give you a list. West Yorkshire, for example, is most definitely following the new scheme I've described. Historically, it used to do as you've described. It's relatively new so no surprise that it hasn't come to your attention until today.
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 19 May 2018 - 10:18
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 16:41) *
QUOTE (agtlaw @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 14:14) *
You've described the old protocol. New system (introduced earlier this year) is outlined here and here. It appears to be a national protocol, but I can't be absolutely certain of that.

The descriptions are provided by two lawyers who seemingly specialise in defending motorists and their explanations are correct.

One of whom appears to be himself, btw. Nowt wrong with tooting one's own klaxon, of course; I do it myself (in a vastly different context), partly just to see if anyone is paying attention...

--Churchmouse
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