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Road resurfaced and car moved to a permit zone
nari
post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 21:55
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Hey all

I Parked on a road, about 3 minutes from my home, that has no parking restrictions. I was parked there a little over a week before I came back to use the car. When I returned, my car was nowhere to be seen although i did notice that the road had been resurfaced. I called the council and was informed the car had been towed. When I went to collect the car I was informed by a member of staff that the car had been relocated in order for the road resurfacing to be completed. Unfortunately it was relocated to parking permitted zone and the car was subsequently ticketed a number of times before being towed.

I have been doing my own research but any help and information regarding the best way to challenge this would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks









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post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 21:55
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stamfordman
post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 22:00
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QUOTE (nari @ Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 22:55) *
Unfortunately it was relocated to parking permitted zone and the car was subsequently ticketed a number of times before being towed.


Naughty council - this must be their fault and you should get your money back.

Was there any indication that you had a permit - e.g maybe an expired one on display?

Could they have easily relocated it to non permit road?

How many PCNs?

When did you park and when was tow?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 22:05
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nari
post Mon, 12 Aug 2019 - 22:10
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I forgot to mention that when we parked there there were no visible signage informing that there was going to be some work carried out on the road. Although i don't have any evidence to back this up.


no indication of a permit or expired permit etc

There are quite a few roads in the area without parking restrictions although i do not know about the availability of spaces at the time

3 PCNs in total

The time frame question is a little bit more difficult and im going to have to see if my son can remember those exact details but approximately a week and a half before it was towed
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 07:05
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OP----IMO this is an abuse of process and completely unfair in that you have been penalised and more so deprived of your vehicle. The Council has acted wholly unreasonably and I would be looking to claim costs.

In essence one part of the Council acted correctly in relocating the vehicle but made an error in placing it in a permit zone. That mistake was exacerbated by removal of the vehicle (by the same tow truck?).

Here is the background to an abuse of process case in which the Council have acted unfairly and in prejudice of an appellant rights:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1450992

We need some sort of timeframe from you and why you didn't check your vehicle regularly.

Wait for others to comment since this needs to be a precise appeal.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 07:57
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1.Reinstate all date, times, locations and everything else except your personal information. As more than one PCN is involved, you should number them otherwise we'll lose track. And state clearly which of the PCNs is referred to in the release documents.

2. Get on to the council's website and see whether there are outstanding penalties and if so, give details.

Forget abuse of process for the moment pl, we're still finding facts.

So far you've posted 3 PCNs all for the same contravention NONE OF WHICH relates to the first removal. But whether any relate directly to the tow, we do not know. And as your car was removed to another place on a road, then where's this PCN??

You get my drift?

And how would we know what's the most urgent matter, we don't know any dates!!
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nari
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 15:40
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1st PCN (03/08)



2nd PCN (04/08)



PCN referred to in release form (07/08)



The release form



Authorised for removal slip





I went online and checked each of the three PCNs given to me when I collected the vehicle. The 1st and 2nd I could access and are outstanding. I can post screenshots of what I can view online if that would help? They both say "parked in a residents or shared use parking place or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place, or without payment of the parking charge' and they both have a number of pictures showing the car, where it was parked, etc.

I couldn't access the third PCN which was referred to in the release document, I presume, because it was paid on release.

As has been said, all three of these PCNs seem to be for the same contravention which was a result of the car being relocated, although, how and when the car was relocated is a mystery to me at this point.

As for why I didn't check my vehicle regularly, that would just be down to having no reason to use it for around a week - a week and a half. Unfortunately, I don't have a better reason than that


Don't know it helps but i put together a map showing where the car was originally parked and where it was the moved to -



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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 15:45
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So there was no PCN from the original parking place on car? Have you checked with council?
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nari
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 15:56
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There wasn't one when we retrieved the car from the impound but I will double check with the council
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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 16:48
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Can you please re-post the images using imgbb.com or imgur.com ? tinypic's servers are not working at the moment:



--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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nari
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 17:18
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Of course, here we are:

1st PCN (03/08)



2nd PCN (03/08)



PCN referred to in release form (07/08)



The release form



Authorised for removal slip



Map


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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 17:26
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We need an accurate timeframe, also have you checked the council website to see if there are any other outstanding penalties?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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nari
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:44
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Do I not need a PCN number to check an outstanding penalty online?

Otherwise ill have to speak with the council tomorrow, as I think their offices are closed now.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:50
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Some council systems will log all PCNs against a car VRM once you have logged in with one.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 09:26
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OP, let's try and get some clarity.

Your account makes no sense. Let me explain.

You parked your vehicle on **** (date.. which you've not told us!) on an unrestricted length of street 24/7. Yes?

You say that at some point this location became restricted and that your car was moved to location B. We do not know when.

At location B THREE PCNs were issued on 3, 4 and 7th August.

Car was removed to the pound on ***.

You recovered vehicle on *** on payment of £265 comprising £200 for tow and £65 for penalty in respect of PCN issued on ???


The contravention given in the three PCNs is the same and is NOT one which would be introduced to deal with resurfacing of a road, this would be no waiting and therefore NONE of the PCNs relates to the initial moving of your car.

If any of the PCNs at location B is lawful, then it is ONLY the first one, but this isn't the one apparently given in the release paperwork.

So I'm still lost by your account which has too many gaps.

Pl help.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 10:58
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 11:53
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h - my understanding is the car did not comit an offence at the first place - it was jsut relocated without a PCN.
Where it was relocated to had a permit system in place, and as the vehicle had no permit, that is what the PCNs are for.
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nari
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 12:18
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Timeline would be: Originally parked on the unrestricted road i marked in yellow on the map on the 31st July. At some point after this the car was moved and the road resurfaced. Then on the 3rd and 4th the car received the first 2 PCNs. On the 7th the car received another PCN and was ultimately towed. It wasn't until the 8th (when I actually had to use the car) that I found it was not where I had left it.

Ill check with the council today to find out if there is another outstanding PCN I don't know about. If there isn't another outstanding PCN, do I want to press the council to find out how the car was relocated to a permit zone in the first place?

thanks
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disgrunt
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 14:00
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Playing devils advocate, could you or somebody who drives your car used it and parked it in the residents spot by accident / being forgetful?

If I were you I’d want proof that the car was relocated for the resurfacing rather than relying on heresay.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 14:18
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h - my understanding is the car did not comit an offence at the first place - it was jsut relocated without a PCN.


With what lawful authority? None that I know of. Whereas a vehicle may be removed in different scenarios e.g. appears to be abandoned, has been issued with a PCN, only the latter allows moving to another place on a road.


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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 14:25
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So this was the road where you originally parked?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5886741,-0....6384!8i8192

It hasn't got a name it seems. Why?

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nari
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 14:58
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Well I guess I can't exactly prove that the car was not parked in the residents spot by accident.

Spoken to the council and they are saying that any evidence they may have of the car being moved can only be retrieved by emailing, or writing, to the same addresses used for making representations (wfpcn@nsl.co.uk or Parking Services, PO Box 9319, London, E17 7RX)
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