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[NIP Wizard] NIP - Can anything be done.
dave6969
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 22:46
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2018
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 13 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A412 St Albans Road, Junction with Langley Road, Northbound, Watford, Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Driver was driving towards the lights, got distracted for a split second before reaching the lights and did not brake. Proceeded to brake as soon as they realised but the whole car passed the stop sign. They came to a standstill after the stop sign and then reversed back behind the line and waited till the lights turned green. Was flashed once whilst driving through red light and second flash as i had come to a stop realising what ive done. The NIP states that the light was red for 23.4 seconds when i have crossed through.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - yes

This post has been edited by dave6969: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 12:18
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post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 22:46
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peterguk
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:09
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QUOTE (dave6969 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:46) *
Were you driving? - Unsure


Please explain how you're not sure whether you were the driver, but seem to know a lot about the event in question.


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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 06:28
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The offence occurs if any part of the vehicle crosses the stop line when red is illuminated.

First step would be to ask for photos to assist in the driver identification (but you know who it was) and see what they reveal. It doesn’t stop the 28 clock to name the driver.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 09:05
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QUOTE (dave6969 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:46) *
Was flashed twice while the car was stationary past the stop line.[/b]

'Unlikely' to say the least, the first photo (flash) is triggered by the car crossing the sensors at the stop line, as such a car stationary and after the stop line at that time cannot be triggering the sensors. The second flash may well have been by the time you came to a stop, but its sole purpose is to prove the car was still moving at the time of the first photo, hence crossing the stop line as opposed to being stopped straddling it.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 09:22
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There was 3 seconds of amber before the light went red and usually 1 second before the camera arms. Ironically, you may have avoided detection by not braking.

A lot depends on exactly what happened - the photo's may be hard to dispute and may not match your recollection.

As long as it wasn't too far into red a course may be available otherwise a fixed penalty. There's a slim chance of the force using some discretion but it does depend on exactly what happened.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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dave6969
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 12:18
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 00:09) *
QUOTE (dave6969 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:46) *
Were you driving? - Unsure


Please explain how you're not sure whether you were the driver, but seem to know a lot about the event in question.



sorry i have amended the details and added more info in description.
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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 12:21
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QUOTE (dave6969 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:46) *
The NIP states that the light was red for 23.4 seconds when i have crossed through.

Right, that changes matters. So it wasn't just changing as you approached it!

That amount of time into red will require court to deal with it.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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peterguk
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 12:23
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QUOTE (dave6969 @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 13:18) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 00:09) *
QUOTE (dave6969 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:46) *
Were you driving? - Unsure


Please explain how you're not sure whether you were the driver, but seem to know a lot about the event in question.



sorry i have amended the details and added more info in description.

OK, so you were the driver. In which case you need to name yourself.

Offence was in August. Your 28 days must be up soon?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 12:24


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dave6969
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 12:49
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Yes I was the driver, 28 days will up in a week. Can i not argue it on the fact that i never actually drove through the red light, just braked late and reversed. Sorry if thats a stupid questions but trying to not get 3 points on my license.

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 13:21) *
QUOTE (dave6969 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 23:46) *
The NIP states that the light was red for 23.4 seconds when i have crossed through.

Right, that changes matters. So it wasn't just changing as you approached it!

That amount of time into red will require court to deal with it.


Yeah, i was on my phone like an idiot and forgot to brake (another offence i am aware!). So i am better of just taking the penalty would you say, as stopping and reversing back behind the line would not be a valid defence i assume?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 13:04
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QUOTE (dave6969 @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 13:49) *
Yeah, i was on my phone like an idiot and forgot to brake (another offence i am aware!). So i am better of just taking the penalty would you say, as stopping and reversing back behind the line would not be a valid defence i assume?

Yup, not a defence. As for 'taking the penalty', it won't be a fixed penalty but dealt with in court, you won't need to attend but expect a fine towards the upper end of the scale (Band A so 25-75% of your weekly income after Tax and NI are deducted ONLY) plus £85 costs a a surcharge of £30 min or 10% of the fine.

I think adding the fact that being on your phone is obviously a dangerous distraction is almost superfluous?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 14:00
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We don't judge on here... As I noted earlier the offence appears complete and the 3 points seems like the best you'll get.

I can't see them cutting you any slack. There's an extremely long shot if you overshot the line by a small margin only. (The sensors are just past the stop line)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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dave6969
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 16:56
Post #12


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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 14:04) *
QUOTE (dave6969 @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 13:49) *
Yeah, i was on my phone like an idiot and forgot to brake (another offence i am aware!). So i am better of just taking the penalty would you say, as stopping and reversing back behind the line would not be a valid defence i assume?

Yup, not a defence. As for 'taking the penalty', it won't be a fixed penalty but dealt with in court, you won't need to attend but expect a fine towards the upper end of the scale (Band A so 25-75% of your weekly income after Tax and NI are deducted ONLY) plus £85 costs a a surcharge of £30 min or 10% of the fine.

I think adding the fact that being on your phone is obviously a dangerous distraction is almost superfluous?



I am a student with no income, just student finance. Does that make any difference.

QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 15:00) *
We don't judge on here... As I noted earlier the offence appears complete and the 3 points seems like the best you'll get.

I can't see them cutting you any slack. There's an extremely long shot if you overshot the line by a small margin only. (The sensors are just past the stop line)



Ah well, you live and you learn I guess.
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Jlc
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 17:08
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Court sentencing uses a minimum income of £120/week but you can ask for a payment plan.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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