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Purely Way yellow box junction
Nobel
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 13:55
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Hi,

I’d be grateful for any advice re appealing a PCN from TfL, caught on CCTV stopping in a yellow box junction.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qihu65catu70762/...O3-yEpwFqa?dl=0

Many thanks for your help
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post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 13:55
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The Rookie
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 14:26
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I’ve asked Mod to move it to the correct (council and decrim) forum for you.

The video looks bang to rights to be honest so I think you’re looking at a technical defence.


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stamfordman
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 14:55
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This is hopeless - shame you didn't just drive out to the right as there was plenty of room there.

Is the case on hold.

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Nobel
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 14:59
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Sorry for posting in wrong forum.

Yes, it is on hold due to asking for the footage on DVD.
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cp8759
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 15:49
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Add pages 3 and 4 of the PCN to your dropbox folder please.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Nobel
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 18:01
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Pages 3 & 4 added:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qihu65catu70762/...O3-yEpwFqa?dl=0

Many thanks
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cp8759
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 18:22
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Can't see anything here at all, sorry.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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MrChips
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 20:35
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Can't think of anything that would help you here, sorry. Discount beckons.
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Nobel
post Sun, 15 May 2022 - 23:14
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I feared as much!

Thanks very much for taking a look!
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Incandescent
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 08:58
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You actually entered the box when the traffic on the other side was already stationary. Fatal in London, and shortly to become fatal throughout England. Councils must be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of all that dosh to come rolling in !
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Schofeldt
post Mon, 16 May 2022 - 11:18
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Conflation argument re the payment and reps. period on page 1? Some adjudicators allow, others don't, of course.

The wording on your PCN is misleading, it states,
"If you fail to pay the penalty charge or make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may be issued to you...."

This wording has previously been adjudicated on with cases: 211055831A, 2110436163. I shall quote the adjudicators comments below from case 211055831A:
The sentence which Mr Janssen challenges is under the section headed "Do not ignore this notice". This section provides information to recipients of a PCN what they need to do. The first two sentence concerns payment and the early payment discount. Mr Janssen does not take issue with these. The problem is in the third sentence. I shall reproduce it here for easy reference. It reads:

"If you fail to pay the penalty charge or make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may be issued to you...."

This sentence is only partially correct. The 28 day period of payment commences with the date of the PCN but service of charge certificate is not triggered by non-payment alone. It is triggered by the absence of representations within a 28 day period starting from the date of service of the PCN. The correct way to express how a charge certificate may therefore be: "If you fail to pay the penalty charge and do not make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may be issued to you...". The use of the word "or" incorrectly suggests that a charge certificate may be issued unless payment is made within a 28 day period commencing with the date of service of the notice, which is different to the date of the notice.

One might argue that such a difference would make no difference especially as the correct payment is already stated in the first sentence, but I think that there is a potential to mislead. The PCN is therefore invalid. I am allowing the appeal.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Mon, 16 May 2022 - 11:29


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