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Gemini PCN - forgot POPLA appeal but NTK very late
MC Dem
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 13:39
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Hi all,

I received a windscreen PCN on 6th February from Gemini Parking Solutions as I was not able to purchase a ticket because the ticket machine on site was faulty and didn't produce a ticket when I put the coin in.

I appealed explaining the circumstance around day 26 and they rejected it and said they have no reported machine faults in the location. It also contained a POPLA code.

Unfortunately I completely forgot about the ticket & didn't do a POPLA appeal. However, last night my parents told me they received a NTK in the post (I'm living away from home for uni), dated 18th April.

I've spoken to my mum who kindly reminded me that I'm an idiot and advises me to pay up. However, reading forums some people suggest to ignore until a small claim/court claim? Also not sure if I have any grounds under POFA 2012 as the NTK was sent so late? Also, the rejection letter from Gemini it says "see photographic evidence below" but there is none?

If any pictures of my appeal/rejection letter/NTk would be helpful please let me know and I am happy to share.

Sorry I am such as newbie, but any help and advice is massively appreciated!


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post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 13:39
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ostell
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 14:10
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If they do not know the identity of the driver and the Notice to Keeper arrived after day 56 from parking then they cannot transfer liability from the driver to the keeper

Here's the response if the driver ID is not known

Dear Sirs,

I am the keeper of vehicle VRM xxxx and have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx]

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 28 to 56 days as prescribed by section 8 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


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ManxRed
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 14:19
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Note that the above is only really useful if you didn't give away the identity of the driver in your initial appeal. I've a feeling you might have done that, but please confirm.


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Sheffield Dave
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 15:21
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was the coin rejected, or did the machine take the coin but not print a ticket?

This post has been edited by Sheffield Dave: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 18:43
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ostell
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 16:25
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@Sheffield Dave please edit so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred.
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MC Dem
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 18:04
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 15:19) *
Note that the above is only really useful if you didn't give away the identity of the driver in your initial appeal. I've a feeling you might have done that, but please confirm.


Yes unfortunately I tried explaining the situation that I had put a pound into the ticket machine but it was faulty etc. So I basically told them I was the driver.

QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 16:21) *
was your coin rejected, or did the machine take your coin but not print a ticket?


Machine took the coin but didn't print a ticket
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ManxRed
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 14:36
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Was anyone else with you who witnessed that no ticket came out?

If this came to a court claim then you could potentially use a defence of 'Frustration of Contract', which meant that you made every attempt to comply with the terms and conditions (by paying), however circumstances beyond your control prevented you with fulfilling all of your obligations (you paid, but the machine malfunction prevented you from displaying). It might however come down to your credibility as a witness, but if you're prepared to sign a witness statement attesting to this, then there's no reason (other than if the PPC has some kind of firm evidence to the contrary, but I cannot imagine what that might be) then they ought to take you at your word (lying in a witness statement can carry serious consequences!).

Was there any kind of helpline number on the machine that they might reasonably have expected you to use to report the fault?


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MC Dem
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 14:53
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 15:36) *
Was anyone else with you who witnessed that no ticket came out?

If this came to a court claim then you could potentially use a defence of 'Frustration of Contract', which meant that you made every attempt to comply with the terms and conditions (by paying), however circumstances beyond your control prevented you with fulfilling all of your obligations (you paid, but the machine malfunction prevented you from displaying). It might however come down to your credibility as a witness, but if you're prepared to sign a witness statement attesting to this, then there's no reason (other than if the PPC has some kind of firm evidence to the contrary, but I cannot imagine what that might be) then they ought to take you at your word (lying in a witness statement can carry serious consequences!).

Was there any kind of helpline number on the machine that they might reasonably have expected you to use to report the fault?


Unfortunately there was no one with me. The machine has no helpline number, no instructions or anything a all, it is a very run down machine with scratches and I think even graffiti on it from what I remember. The signage has no instructions on what to do in the instance the machine is not working.

However, I have no witness or any other evidence so I'm not sure I have any defence? Would I be better off just paying it and avoiding the hassle? (Sorry for late reply, exam season has started).
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ostell
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 15:13
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Stop hinting at the identity of the driver !

Your witness statement says you paid
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MC Dem
post Fri, 17 May 2019 - 18:02
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 6 May 2019 - 16:13) *
Stop hinting at the identity of the driver !

Your witness statement says you paid


Ah sorry I misread the previous reply. I suppose I'd be prepared to sign a witness statement if it came to it, but I'm just thinking about avoiding the hassle altogether and paying it. How often do these things go to court claims? Is it quite unlikely they'll follow through considering I'm sure they are aware that the car parking site is overall very run down with graffiti and wear to signs not to mention the faulty machine that is now out of order.

I read somewhere they keep these things in their records for up to five years however and I don't want something popping up in a years time or something.
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Redivi
post Fri, 17 May 2019 - 19:07
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Gemini doesn't issue huge numbers of claims

Parking companies issue claims as a low cost high pressure debt collection tactic

A lot of people instantly pay to avoid the hassle
Only about 1 claim in 20 gets as far as a hearing

If there's a hearing, Parking companies usually lose money even if they win
Many of them drop claims at the last minute if a defendant has a good defence and doesn't blink
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