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PCN for not displaying ticket correctly
stevienicknacks
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 09:32
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Hi, I recently parked at a local sports and social club. My friend had arrived just before me so bought 2 tickets, 1 for each car. I placed the ticket in the car window but I either accidently placed it the wrong way around or the wind blew it (was windy). Either way it was displayed in the window (which they have acknowledged(see attached picture) but it is in violation of their "rules”.
Thanks

Stevienicknacks

This post has been edited by stevienicknacks: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 14:43
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post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 09:32
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kommando
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 09:37
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NA

This post has been edited by kommando: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 08:28
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stevienicknacks
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 09:56
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QUOTE (kommando @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 10:37) *
Best you start again, you never reveal the drivers identity as it removes one of the main defences so get editing.

The driver drove and the keeper is you.


Makes sense

This post has been edited by stevienicknacks: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 12:17
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stevienicknacks
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 11:50
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Any thoughts? Is there a response I can send?

This post has been edited by stevienicknacks: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 12:17
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kommando
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 14:16
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This will hinge on the signage and what it has to say on display of tickets, how clear this is and general signage in the car park.

So take some pics and post them here, use a 3rd party as the storage is limited on this site.

If there is a case for signage the use the POPLA code as part of a POPLA appeal. Post your appeal here first for critique.

If there is not one then do not use POPLA as they will likely agree with Park Watch so instead go back to ParkWatch declining to pay the invoice as they have confirmed you did pay and have a valid ticket. Note that a court will see this as a trivial error that is called De Minimis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

a legal doctrine by which a court refuses to consider trifling matters

Park Watch do issue claims at the small courts.
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stevienicknacks
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 14:43
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Ok thank you for the response, ill head that way over weekend and take some pics.
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stevienicknacks
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 21:01
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Hi, a friend took a few pics for me(I don't live near the area), if I need some of the actual car park etc Ill get them during the day tomorrow.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4xxm2mlzp1wptwz/...GkHGCKSFka?dl=0

The one thing I did notice is that the sign just has an image relating to displaying the ticket with the wording "always display a valid pay and display ticket". Well I did, it was just the wrong way around smile.gif. Let me know if you cant see the images ok. thanks
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ostell
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 21:13
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OK so it doesn't say display face up. It is valid and no doubt has a serial number on the reverse which would show them that it is valid.
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stevienicknacks
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 08:07
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Unfortunately no serial number number on the rear of ticket, just a reminder to display the ticket clearly. So, do I appeal to POPLA or reply directly to them stating that I won’t pay their invoice? Thanks
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The Rookie
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 08:52
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QUOTE (stevienicknacks @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 10:56) *
QUOTE (kommando @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 10:37) *
Best you start again, you never reveal the drivers identity as it removes one of the main defences so get editing.

The driver drove and the keeper is you.


Makes sense

So edit your first post accordingly, as it tells a reader who the driver is.


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kommando
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 11:18
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In this case the driver has already been revealed, if not I would have edited.

QUOTE
So, do I appeal to POPLA or reply directly to them stating that I won’t pay their invoice? Thanks


You met the published terms and conditions, but wait until there are other views posted, POPLA are not as easy to take the appellants side as they once were.
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stevienicknacks
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 17:01
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Ok thanks
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stevienicknacks
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 15:06
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Any thoughts from anyone else? thanks
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The Slithy Tove
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 15:46
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QUOTE (stevienicknacks @ Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 22:01) *
Hi, a friend took a few pics for me(I don't live near the area), if I need some of the actual car park etc Ill get them during the day tomorrow.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4xxm2mlzp1wptwz/...GkHGCKSFka?dl=0

Is all that small print actually readable with the naked eye? Some PPCs put their signs so far up poles that it's impossible to read the similar small print without the aid of binoculars. If that is the case, then those conditions may as well not be there at all. They can't possible form a contract if you can't read them.
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stevienicknacks
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 21:07
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It is pretty small but legible
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The Rookie
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 05:28
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QUOTE (kommando @ Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 12:18) *
In this case the driver has already been revealed, if not I would have edited.

Nothing on here suggests that is the case?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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stevienicknacks
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 07:36
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For some reason my initial response letter is missing from original post. Stupidly I tried to reason with them before consulting the experts.

Dear sir/madam,

I wish to appeal against the parking ticket issued on 16/9/18 at 10:14am. I was racing at the triathlon in Ellesmere, both myself and a friend(2 cars) parked at the Comrades club. My friend purchased 2 tickets and handed me the ticket. For some reason I either accidentally placed the ticket back to front or the wind blew it when I opened the door(it was very windy). As you can see from the images taken by your attendant there was a ticket in the window. I have also attached an image of the actual ticket that was in the window.. I obviously have my friend as a witness to this, he is happy to be contacted and can also provide his ticket to prove he was there. I can only apologise for the error but do not feel I should be penalised for this.
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stevienicknacks
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 08:17
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Is this response to them a little bold!!! Should I still try to appeal via POPLA? As I have already replied and have my first name should I not bother using "driver" rather than "I". thanks


Dear appeals assessor,

Thank you for your letter dated 21st September 2018. Having read your response and visited the car park again it is clear that your invoice is invalid. You have acknowledged that the driver had a valid ticket in the vehicle windscreen, (The driver also has evidence of this and a witness who is prepared to testify). The signage in the car park simply states (“Always display a valid pay and display ticket or valid permit”), it doesn’t state which way around the ticket needs to be and as you have 1. Taken photographic evidence that there was a ticket in the window and 2. Acknowledged it is valid, then the driver is not liable for prosecution. The driver has met your published terms and conditions.

Based on the evidence above the driver will not be paying your invoice, if you wish to take court proceedings all of this evidence will be provided along with the witness. In this case I expect that the court will find for the driver on the basis that this was a trivial error “De Minimis”.

This post has been edited by stevienicknacks: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 08:17
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kommando
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 08:36
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That is not a POPLA appeal but reads more like a letter to the PPC.

Now for a POPLA appeal you are going to have to do more research before then posting your appeal for critique.

Use this part of the forum to track down POPLA appeals.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=17

You will need to remove the POFA 2012 parts of a typical POPLA appeal as that does not apply, but keep in all the other sections on signage and lack of standing etc, point number 1 will be that they have admitted payment was made and a ticket was displayed so the terms and conditions on the signs were met.
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stevienicknacks
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 09:06
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Ok thanks ill do that
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