Failed Appeal with Civil Enforcement, Is It worth appealing to POPLA? Options

[tommyb92]

Hi everyone, I hope you are all keeping well and Covid free!

Just to give you some back story, I received a PCN in the post last month from Civil Enforcement (ce-service.co.uk) for 'Payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage'

The carpark is owned by Falmouth Harbour Commissioners (private company) and enforced by Civil Enforcement. The entrance to the car park is effectively a side road. There is no signage upon entering the carpark that informs you that you have done so, nor are there any barriers. Additionally, there are a number of businesses that surround the carpark who use it for loading / unloading.

As I mentioned, I received the PCN in the post. The supported evidence they have provided is a CCTV image of my car entering the carpark at one time, and leaving again 20 minutes later.

The reason I entered the carpark was to wait for someone I was picking up, I didn't park in a parking space, nor did I leave my car. I appealed the PCN on the basis that I was wasn't parked and other than the signage that was next to the pay machine, there was no mention of entering private property, nor any mention of CCTV Enforcement. (I have attached an image of my appeal letter)

My appeal was rejected, so I have 14 days to pay the reduced charge or the opportunity to appeal to POPLA (which if I'm unsuccessful will result in the full charge)

Do I have grounds for a successful appeal? I've attached all correspondence and evidence below:

Entrance to carpark: https://ibb.co/M6zpBn1
Carpark signage 1: https://ibb.co/6wHQWv1
Carpark signage 2: https://ibb.co/DDjvCTB
Carpark signage 3: https://ibb.co/KxJLghv
PCN Front: https://ibb.co/7Jtn2M4
PCN Rear: https://ibb.co/K0J6jGc
My initial appeal: https://ibb.co/q0mbNsd
Rejected Appeal: https://ibb.co/vBz31c4

Many thanks in advance!

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[Dave65]

Unfortunately you have given the drivers ID in your appeal, however, this area may well be covered by byelaws and it is not private land.

Regulars will be along to advise.

[ostell]

I would suggest you pay the reduced charge. They know who the driver was so there is no protection with POFA nor the fact that it was not relevant land.

You were on their land, the car was stopped for an extended period. It is irrelevant if the engine was running and the driver remained in the car.

CEL do go to court.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 16:55

[tommyb92]

I would suggest you pay the reduced charge. They know who the driver was so there is no protection with POFA nor the fact that it was not relevant land.

You were on their land, the car was stopped for an extended period. It is irrelevant if the engine was running and the driver remained in the car.

CEL do go to court.

Ahh okay, so I shot myself in the foot by admitting I was the driver? In this instance, is it best to go down the route of denying all knowledge of who the driver was?

[Jlc]

In this instance, is it best to go down the route of denying all knowledge of who the driver was?

No, you don't lie. But they do not know who was driving (unless they are told) and as they haven't used the Protection of Freedoms Act they cannot automatically pursue the keeper.

[baroudeur]

In this instance, is it best to go down the route of denying all knowledge of who the driver was?

No, you don't lie. But they do not know who was driving (unless they are told) and as they haven't used the Protection of Freedoms Act they cannot automatically pursue the keeper.

Perhaps the OP was referring to any future parking problems?

[ostell]

So you have already told them who was driving, they have the letter, so if it goes to court with you denying under oath, that you not the driver and this letter appears I don't fancy your chances with the judge.

@Jlc have a read of the appeal letter "I sat in my car" etc

[tommyb92]

Unfortunately, they do know I was the driver.

But my reason for being there still stands. I received a Parking Charge Notice for not even parking, in 'private land', despite the fact there was nothing to state it was private land.

The only sign mentioning that payment is required is next to the pay meter. and not visible upon entry to the carpark.

In edition to this, I've been sniped by a CCTV camera. - I was under the impression that for this to happen I would have to be pre-warned by use of a sign?

[Umkomaas]

I'm afraid that second paragraph of the appeal has become expensive - ouch. With no admission to driving it would have been a cast iron cancellation by either CEL, or POPLA.

This post has been edited by Umkomaas: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 18:08

[Jlc]

@Jlc have a read of the appeal letter "I sat in my car" etc

Yes, saw that...

But my reason for being there still stands. I received a Parking Charge Notice for not even parking, in 'private land', despite the fact there was nothing to state it was private land.

The test would be whether you had the opportunity to read the signs and form a contract. If there were no signs for the route you took then you could fight them at court.

In edition to this, I've been sniped by a CCTV camera. - I was under the impression that for this to happen I would have to be pre-warned by use of a sign?

Subtle difference but ANPR - which just read your number plate on entry and exit.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 - 18:30

[ostell]

The signs, several of them and the pay machine, are straight ahead as you enter. Difficult to miss.

[tommyb92]

@Jlc have a read of the appeal letter "I sat in my car" etc

Yes, saw that...

But my reason for being there still stands. I received a Parking Charge Notice for not even parking, in 'private land', despite the fact there was nothing to state it was private land.

The test would be whether you had the opportunity to read the signs and form a contract. If there were no signs for the route you took then you could fight them at court.

In edition to this, I've been sniped by a CCTV camera. - I was under the impression that for this to happen I would have to be pre-warned by use of a sign?

Subtle difference but ANPR - which just read your number plate on entry and exit.

Exactly, and I know the carpark is used for loading / unloading. there is a pub down there which has keg deliveries.. I can't imagine they get a PCN every time beer is delivered.


Do you know whether there is a legal requirement to mention ANPR is in use? I would have thought there was..

It looks like I may have to take this one on the chin.

The signs, several of them and the pay machine, are straight ahead as you enter. Difficult to miss.

Signs directed at people standing by the machine. My eye site is pretty good, but I can't read size 12 font from 10m away.

In addition, the signs are discussing parking. I've stated I wasn't parked, so their signage is irrelevant (in my eyes)


Appreciate the help nonetheless people!

[ostell]

The signs are clearly there, as is the pay machine. They are not hidden. It would be assumed that you would read them when you pay. The car in a fixed place for a considerable time would be considered parking, you weren't loading.

The pub either has the delivery lorries on a whitelist or the enter the VRM on a terminal

ANPR will probably be mentioned on the signs.

I hate to say pay but this is going to be a lot of aggravation if you continue to resist. Knowing the driver will make sure this one goes to court