Parking Contravention - Lambeth |
Parking Contravention - Lambeth |
Sun, 3 Nov 2019 - 14:10
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Hello,
I received a PCN from parking incorrectly in Lambeth, dated the 29th of October 2019. Please see photos taken by the council below: https://ibb.co/NmxGjf0 https://ibb.co/Lx4qTsy https://ibb.co/xhk6g0d https://ibb.co/KF262Qv https://ibb.co/jzXkCYZ Here is the Google Street View: https://goo.gl/maps/S9dxCXyxw2SMye339 - I was parked on the left. I would like to know how to proceed with this. I thought I was parked fine - parking there is seemingly confusing with driveways, lines and signs all over the place. Admittedly, I had not seen the sign on the other side of the pole. Any advise is greatly appreciated, any things I have left out or you need to know from me, please ask. |
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Sun, 3 Nov 2019 - 14:10
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Sun, 23 Feb 2020 - 19:10
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#81
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
I could certainly try - how and where does one start these steps?
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Sun, 23 Feb 2020 - 19:25
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#82
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
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Sun, 23 Feb 2020 - 20:00
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#83
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
request for costs award case number xxxxxxxxxx
I submit to the adjudicator that the behaviour of the enforcement authority in the conduct of this case is either or both wholly unreasonable or frivolous. The authority rejected my representations with no proper consideration of my reasons for representations Then when I appealed to the tribunal they failed to respond in any way whatsoever. It would be courteous at the least and I would suggest a requirement that if the authority did not intend to contest they should inform the tribunal. As it was I had to spend time researching and drafting my appeal submitting it to the tribunal and then attending the tribunal. This failure to acknowledge or to respond to the appeal I submit is wholly unreasonable and/or frivolous and the high test for a cost award has been met I would claim 5 hours research and preparation at litigant in person rate of £19 per hour = £95 and also travel cost to the tribunal offices @ xxx a total of xxxx Thank you for the consideration of this request -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 08:29
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#84
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,055 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
I would put in context:
According to the latest data produced by ETA (2018-2019), Lambeth did not contest a staggering 42% of parking appeals registered by the Tribunal. Therefore, while I am not alone in being subjected to this treatment (not that I draw much comfort from this), it shows the true colours of the authority's regard for the process, motorists and the Tribunal in that not contesting is clearly second nature to them. I would therefore ask the adjudicator to consider my request for costs against this backdrop. (I managed to get costs against these numpties a little while ago in respect of a tow-away case for No. 1 son by adopting a similar approach. I think it helps) https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...%20final_0.xlsx This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 08:30 |
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Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 12:49
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#85
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I would put in context: According to the latest data produced by ETA (2018-2019), Lambeth did not contest a staggering 42% of parking appeals registered by the Tribunal. Therefore, while I am not alone in being subjected to this treatment (not that I draw much comfort from this), it shows the true colours of the authority's regard for the process, motorists and the Tribunal in that not contesting is clearly second nature to them. I would therefore ask the adjudicator to consider my request for costs against this backdrop. (I managed to get costs against these numpties a little while ago in respect of a tow-away case for No. 1 son by adopting a similar approach. I think it helps) https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...%20final_0.xlsx I agree, but sight must not be lost of the fact that they did not inform anyone and that as a consequence you turned up for your hearing -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 13:16
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#86
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,055 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Then tweak my draft...
..second nature to them, although in this case they went one stage further and did not notify the adjudicator or myself in advance. Therefore, not only was I subject to a redundant journey, the Tribunal scheduled a wasted hearing for want of even the most basic courtesy being shown to them by the authority. |
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Mon, 24 Feb 2020 - 23:56
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#87
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
I think a combining the two makes for a strong request, I will be submitting the below shortly and hopefully there is good news on this front as well. Thanks again for helping out. Will the spreadsheet link be required, or was that just for demonstration purposes?
Request for costs award case number: xxxxxxxxxx I submit to the adjudicator that the behaviour of the enforcement authority in the conduct of this case is either or both wholly unreasonable or frivolous. The authority rejected my representations with no proper consideration of my reasons for representations Then when I appealed to the tribunal they failed to respond in any way whatsoever. It would be courteous at the least and I would suggest a requirement that if the authority did not intend to contest they should inform the tribunal. As it was I had to spend time researching and drafting my appeal submitting it to the tribunal and then attending the tribunal. According to the latest data produced by ETA (2018-2019), Lambeth did not contest a staggering 42% of parking appeals registered by the Tribunal. Therefore, while I am not alone in being subjected to this treatment (not that I draw much comfort from this), it shows the true colours of the authority's regard for the process, motorists and the Tribunal in that not contesting is clearly second nature to them, although in this case they went one stage further and did not notify the adjudicator or myself in advance. Therefore, not only was I subject to a redundant journey, the Tribunal scheduled a wasted hearing for want of even the most basic courtesy being shown to them by the authority. This failure to acknowledge or to respond to the appeal I submit is wholly unreasonable and/or frivolous and the high test for a cost award has been met. I would claim 5 hours research and preparation at litigant in person rate of £19 per hour = £95 and also travel cost to the tribunal offices @ £25.10 a total of £120.10 Thank you for the consideration of this request |
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Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 15:40
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#88
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Just checking, it is stated that a written request must be made - there is no online option for this? Taking it is the following address: Post: PO Box 10598, Nottingham NG6 6DR
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Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 16:00
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#89
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
There's a template here:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/ruc/cost...plication-costs worth calling to see if you can email it. I don't think I've posted a letter for about 3 years now. |
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Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 20:57
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#90
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
You can email it to queries@londontribunals.org.uk but it must be in the body of the email, as they won't accept attachments.
This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 - 20:57 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 1 Jun 2020 - 12:29
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#91
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Reviving an old thread, but I just want to update that last week I received an email that an adjudicator will be looking at my cost appeal later this month.
I don't think I have much evidence to provide of a cost appeal, but still there might be something to gain from this and I also want to reiterate my thanks once again to you guys who have been helpful, even when Lambeth was refusing to cooperate. And who knows, maybe the fact I attended in person and provided all sorts of evidence works in my favour where Lambeth did nothing on their end. |
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 21:10
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#92
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Received the following reply:
1. Lambeth Council has been advised that an application for cost of the above appeal has been accepted. 2. The Civil Enforcement Officers noted that the appellant’s vehicle was parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (Partly on footway) and the PCN issued correctly. 3. The case was to be heard on 21 July 2020. However, we the Council were unable to create the Evidence Pack within the specified time given to us by the London Tribunal and therefore, we did not contest the case. 4. The Council would like to draw the adjudicator’s attention to the reasons for cost by the appellant Mr. Relatable which is covered by the judicial process of challenging a PCN (TMA 2004). Under the Traffic Management Act 2004 (TMA 2004) it gives recipient the right to make representations to the enforcement authority and to appeal to an adjudicator if their representations are not accepted. It is also for the recipient to provide the necessary evidence in support of their case. 5. We the Authority note that the appellant is requesting a cost for £120. However, there is no justifiable reason or receipt provided for this amount. Whilst we understand the inconvenience caused both to the appellant and ETA, the Council does not find any grounds for cost to be awarded. 6. Nevertheless, due to an oversight, the ‘Do not contest’ letter was not sent to the appellant and was not uploaded to the ETA system. 7. Therefore, on this occasion we the Council are willing to offer the appellant, £40 for the error. I did not upload any evidence, granted I couldn't find any evidence, at least in terms of train ticket or travel expenses as I did drive half way there. At least, it is still £40. I just need to look into how to obtain this amount. Once again, thanks for helping out in the previous months. This post has been edited by relatable: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 20:36 |
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 21:14
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#93
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Well that's not a bad result. I don't think I've seen a successful cost award. Well done.
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 21:19
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#94
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
OP---I would contact the Tribunal to determine the current position. It's all very well for the Council to horsetrade but it's for an adjudicator to agree the cost amount.
£40 is a derisory sum IMO. Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 21:20 |
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 21:50
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#95
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Yes, I must add that this came directly from Lambeth, not from the Tribunal. So, on second notice that is somewhat conspicuous as I hadn't heard anything from the Tribunal. I could certainly get in contact with them to ask for an update.
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 22:19
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#96
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Let's see what the tribunal says.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 12:39
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#97
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Let's see what the tribunal says. You start from the position that the council accept that they behaved in a manner that warrants that you be compensated for your time You claimed £25 for travel can you evidence that. fares, or parking +mileage allowance etc. If that £25 is justified the council offer only £15 for your time in research and drafting your submission let alone the time spent at the tribunal lets estimate 30 minutes from arrival checking in and a short waiting £9.50 at LiP rate so they are actually offering only £5.50 for your research and time spent drafting. I would put that to the adjudicator and let them decide how much your research and time drafting is worth This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 12:40 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 22:37
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#98
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Okay, so to update this further, the Tribunal hasn't actually made a judgement yet, the case is due 21st July with a deadline of the 16th, I misread and thought this was last month.
So this means that Lambeth is offering the sum, assuming so that application gets marked as resolved due to accepting the their sum. I'll have to see if I can collect evidence and send that off. I seem to be unable to log in on the website, at least with regards of the case reference. I am thinking it might be the data I entered, at least with regards of the verification code as I cannot remember for the life of me, unless this works different and I need to send the evidence via post, in which case I will need to check which address it needs to be send to. |
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Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 08:36
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#99
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If you have trouble logging in just call the tribunal helpline.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 12:49
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#100
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 3 Nov 2019 Member No.: 106,452 |
Okay, so I can not upload any evidence online, I was able to log in after speaking to them. This is because the original decision was made back in February, but they said I can email them the evidence instead.
So, what I can provide as evidence is a snippet of my bank statement showing I spend money parking at Westfield in Stratford and took the Underground to Chancery Lane. I drove to Stratford, can't really provide evidence for that, other than explaining roughly how much it cost. I can also provide a screenshot of a breakdown of the TfL costs, as it came out in one single sum and not individual sums. It would total to £25.10 and the rest I claimed is the 5 hours of research at LiP of £19 which is £95. Below is a draft to counter what Lambeth provided in their letter: Travel to ETA 22/02/2020 Cost breakdown Travel to Stratford Fuel 34.6 miles £5.15 Parking at Stratford £10.00 Underground to Chancery Lane £2.40 Return to Stratford £2.40 Journey back Fuel 34.6 miles £5.15 Total £25.10 Research time 5 Hours at LiP of £19 I was required to research my defence regarding the penalty charge handed out by Lambeth, I would say that in total I spend 5 hours researching. I also travelled to the office in person. Travel arrangement included driving from my home to Westfield Stratford City and parking and then taking the Underground to Chancery Lane. The journey to and from would cost about £5.15 x2, equalling £10.30. Parking at Westfield cost £10 and the Underground to Chancery Lane and back to Stratford cost £2.40 each totalling £25.10. Below is evidence in the form of a screengrab of my bank statement omitting any information not required. The TfL expenses totalled to £7.20, but this included an additional journey that was not regarding the ETA. Below is a screengrab from the Oyster Card of my partner who travelled with me further detailing the travel cost for the London Underground. Journey to and from Stratford were made by card at 34.6 miles each journey would cost roughly £5.15 for a total of £10.30. Considering that the cost of travel totals £25.10 and that Lambeth are offering me £40, this concludes that Lambeth are offering £14.90 for my research time. I would claim 5 hours research and preparation at litigant in person rate of £19 per hour = £95 and travel cost to the tribunal offices @ £25.10 a total of £120.10 As can be seen in the case history, Lambeth rejected my representations with no proper consideration. Even when it was taken to the Tribunal, they failed to respond whatsoever. In Lambeth’s response they stated that the PCN was issued correctly, but when asked for evidence in my representations they failed to provide to support this evidence and failed to deliver their evidence at the Tribunal hearing, stating that they were unable to create the Evidence Pack within the specified time given to them. I would like to point out that the specified time given to Lambeth was of the same time frame as myself. Lambeth also stated that due to an oversight the ‘Do not contest’ letter was not sent to my address, but Lambeth was very capable rejecting my representations and sending me the letter to my address confirming they had rejected it and why. According to the latest data produced by ETA (2018-2019), Lambeth did not contest a staggering 42% of parking appeals registered by the Tribunal. Therefore, while I am not alone in being subjected to this treatment (not that I draw much comfort from this), it shows the true colours of the authority's regard for the process, motorists and the Tribunal in that not contesting is clearly second nature to them, although in this case they went one stage further and did not notify the adjudicator or myself in advance. Therefore, not only was I subject to a redundant journey, the Tribunal scheduled a wasted hearing for want of even the most basic courtesy being shown to them by the authority. |
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