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Private Land, PCNs from VCS that was recruited by the Management Company, Ignored all PCNs and corresponcence
karenep
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 14:08
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We own the property and have an allocated space within the lease - no details of a Parking Scheme in Lease!! Management Company chose to bring in VCS and require you to display a permit to park, failure to show this, you get a PCN placed on the Car - which I ignored as I thought it was just a scam to get money out of me, never thought it would go to Court. I ignored all PCNs, all correspondence and now we have Court papers, three in fact. I contacted the Management Company requiring them to remove me from the Scheme or get the fines cancelled. As it is a group scheme, they cannot remove me - nor can they get the fines cancelled. The fines have come through in my name, however, I was not the one driving the vehicle on these particular days. I have contacted the local MP in Manchester and await her input. I’m wondering what chance I have of fighting this now - would it be better to recruit someone to do this for me? I have spoken to with the Landlords "Mainstay" who basically push me back to Premier Estates, the Management Company who took out the parking contract.
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post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 14:08
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ostell
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 14:59
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They have taken you to court because you did not respond and they hoped they would have an easy win. Under the protection of Freedoms act 2012 they can claim from the keeper of the car if they don't know the identity of the driver.

First thing is acknowledge the claim(s) on line using the details and password on the forms. Do not put anything in the defence. This gives you 33 days from date of issue to get your defence into court. If they have issued 2 separate claims then that is naughty, they are trying to increase the money they receive. It should be combined into one.

However, your defence will be your lease and the fact that it is your land that they are operating a business there without your permission. I suggest you look at this thread. VCS again and lease property. The withdrew but then the keeper issued a couterclaim against them and it looks as though VCS will lose that one and have to pay.

Post up one of PCNs you received, redacting identifying details.

Start looking through your lease to see what it says about parking.

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 15:00
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 15:13
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VCS have just received a very bloody nose from a Judge as a result of the resolve of Pearlofwisdom. Take a look at her thread.

Do not worry too much about failing to respond to correspondence in the past. In the event of something similar arising in the future, however, never ignore a letter of claim again. For this case, the important thing now is to acknowledge service of the claim (as advised by ostell) and come up with a strong defence.

Based on what you say, this seems like a quite easily defended residential parking case. Most cases involving allocated parking spaces are easily defended.

You do, however, have to do your homework. The parking contractor will be banking on you losing your nerve and backing down. That's how they make their money. Don't let them do it to you.

When submitting your defence, quite possibly, you will want to make a counterclaim because, when a parking contractor finds itself up against someone willing to assert their rights, the contractor often tries to discontinue the claim just before the court hearing. Submitting a counterclaim prevents this happening.

Your lease is your greatest friend. If you can, get it scanned as a searchable pdf document - you need something better than the free version of Adobe for this. Then conduct a search for "park". Copy and paste every bit of the lease mentioning "park" into a new document.

Then go through it again to look for anything that makes provision for changes to the lease to be made or for rules and regulations to be added by the landlord and/or the management company. Copy and paste those bits to the new document.

Do the same again but, this time, looking for anything about "rights of third parties". Copy and paste again.

Search for "rent", "charge" and "permit". Copy and paste anything of relevance.

Do not just select extracts which suit your case, copy and paste everything of relevance. The reason for this is that, if the parking operator gets a copy of the lease, you need to figure out how to defend yourself from extracts that they throw at you.

On each search, go through the lease from beginning to end.

Post what you find.

Do not be daunted by this. If you have questions, do not hesitate to ask them.

If you do not have a copy of his lease, a copy should be obtainable from the solicitor who handled the purchase for you. Failing that, you can obtain a copy of the lease from the Land Registry by completing form OC2 and paying a small fee. The lease is important because it governs both the relationships between the parties to it and their rights and obligations about all sorts of things, not just parking.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 16:42
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Ok the concern is x what's the date of issue of each of these claims?

Outside of 19 days and they may have a default already

Please say you have acknowledged the claims. Tell us the date of issue of each one.
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emanresu
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 07:33
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This is being discussed over on MSE here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5848958
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karenep
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 23:02
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Thanks for this guys, got my Lease out and scanning through.
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karenep
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 11:51
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Nosferatu...Claim One & Two Issue dated 18 May 2018 & recently arrived dated 31 July 2018, - All have been acknowledged.


I have had my original Solicitor go through the Lease and the matter of charging to Park in ones own allocated space. "Your legal Title specifically demise to you a Car Parking Space - it is not it is not subject to any additional charges or payment, as far as I can see that should be maintained by the Company but no separate charge to use it is payable. If Premier insist that they can charge this then I would request the reference in the Lease on which they seek to rely upon in now introducing a Parking Management Company and charging you"

Yesterday I received a "Notice of Allocation to the small Claims Track (Hearing), advising that the hearing of the claim will take place on 16 November 2018, however, unless the claimant does by 4pm on 19 October 2018 pay to the court the trial fee of £25 or file a properly completed application, then the claim will be struck out with effect from 19 October without further order.

Not sure whether this is a standard paragraph?

Neithertheless, I am compiling a response with all my Lease documents and supporting defence.

This post has been edited by karenep: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:00
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ostell
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:36
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The notice from the court is a standard paragraph, nothing to worry about. If VCS don't pay the fee in time then the case will be cancelled by the court.

Until such time continue with the Witness statement.

I would suggest that you send that solicitors opinion to VCS and invite them to agree to a drop hands offer within 14 days, with each side to meet their own costs. After that when you prevail in court you will be submitting a claim for all your costs, including your solicitors charges, because of their unreasonable behaviour in continuing with the claim when they have absolutely no right to take action on space that is demised to you.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 12:46
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That’s a standard paragraph.

You really should have contested this earlier though. They are not only trying to get you to pay in your sown soace, they are offering to rent it out to anyone willing to pay!


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Eljayjay
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 20:20
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Have you submitted statements of defence for any of the claims?

If so, what did you state?

If you want meaningful help with writing the defence for the latest claim and/or witness statements and/or statements of legal arguments, we need to know precisely what your lease says, not what your solicitor says it says. If you are uncertain about what to search for, post the entire document (but after redacting your name and address).
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 08:05
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OK so the one you have had allocated, WHAT DEFENCE did you write?

The most recent one - your defence MUST include that this is a repeat of the prior claim, and should be heard together. Give the nuymber. Alternatively it should be struck as a clear attempt at double recovery.

You MUSt show us the defence you submitted. Hopefully it at least stated you had a lease?
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whjohnson
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 11:44
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I don't think any defence has been submitted yet...........
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 12:29
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wh - something has been submitted AS A defence, because otherwise there would not be an allocation to the local court.
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karenep
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 12:58
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I wrote this to the Courts and sent it back with the original paperwork.


In the County Court Business Centre

Claim Numbers ***** & *****

Claimant Vehicle Control Services

Defendant ******



I enclose herewith a copy of correspondence sent direct to VCS, Premier Estates (Property Maintenance) and also Mainstay (Land Management Company). You may or may not find this useful. To date, I have not received a response.


I write with frustration to the situation regarding Court proceedings relating to parking fines for parking in our own space at the property that we own!

We have several vehicles within the family, all registered in individuals names but insured for several drivers each. The fines that have come through have arrived in the name of *******, who is the registered owner but not necessarily the driver.

The parking fines relate to Vehicles we own being parked in Space ** – our allocated space. On our deeds we have a Car Parking Space “Space **” (a plan is provided to us) which is detailed as a Secure Car Park. At no point does it mention VCS having control of the car park. We have not agreed ourselves to a permit scheme. If you would like a copy of this from our deeds, I am happy to get this sent to you.

The Car Park which holds 40 vehicles rarely has more than 10 vehicles in it – always, there are empty spaces and parking has never been an issue with Shoppers using the car park. The Car Park additionally, is secured with locked gates, you need a Fob to enter this car park – why would this be an issue and necessitate a Permit system?

You allocate just one permit in any case, this is not sufficient. We ourselves do not reside at the property, and we have to visit to carry out remedial works and in fact had to make several visits most recently due to significant lengthy issues – There was a major water leak which meant the properties had NO water for several days, we had to have the Water Boiler overhauled due to a major breakdown and we have had several instances of Mice within the Apartment – whilst Premier instructed a local company, they did not undertake the blocking of any access points and we had to carry out this works ourselves. Obviously, when we attend the property for maintenance, we need to park the vehicle and use space ** for this purpose.

There have been occasions when the same car, day in day out parks within space **, showing a permit – however, the one day the permit has fallen from the screen, a parking fine is applied to the vehicle – VCS know this vehicle and know the vehicle has been there day in day out showing a permit. There was a time when Premier were delayed sending out permits, and VCS even then, although being told by Premier not to do so, applied parking tickets. The whole matter is ludicrous.

We own Apartment **, which is allocated one permit – the space anyone visiting that apartment only ever parks in space **, to reiterate, the space detailed on our Deeds.

To conclude, I have fines and a court case pending in my name, there is no evidence to suggest and I cannot deny or confirm that I was the one driving the vehicle that day.

I would ask that between you, you take a look at this case.

I have written to Premier and Mainstay for their assistance in this matter.





Since this, I have involved my local Manchester MP who is taking a look into it for me. I have also responded to the most recent court letters and returned a copy of my lease, letter from a Solicitor suggesting that my lease has no terms within whereby they can charge etc,

The latest letter sent (with a copy of my Lease) reads....


For the attention of the Court Manager.


REFERENCE CLAIMS *******, ******* & most recently *******

I have three claims being made against me, ******, ****** & most recently *****, could I ask for these to be scheduled together to save the court's time. I would like to use the one defence for all three and cut down on time wasted for everyone.

The facts of the matter; The claims relate to our property which is Flat **, The Life Building, 1 Boston Street, Hulme. Manchester M15 5AY. This property has a 250 year Lease from the 5th day of September 1996 and we purchased the property on 01/10/****.


We have an allocated Residential Parking Space x 1 demised through lease


The Landlords are Mainstay Residential Limited, Whittington Hall, Whittington Road, Worcester WR5 2ZX who appointed Premier Estates Limited, Chiltern House, 72-74 King Edward Street, Macclesfield SK10 1AT to Administer and Manage the communal areas of the property. Premier Estates appointed without any prior discussions or agreement, the company of Vehicle Control Services Limited (VCS) to “manage” the Car Park.


The Car Park is entered via a Key Fob, which we purchased from Premier Estates. Without the fob, you cannot enter the Car Park as it is secured with large Metal Gates, operational electronically using the said Fob.

No contract exists between Lessor (me) and Landowner (Lessor) to allow a third party (Premier Estates) to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of (or override) my lease. There is No Deed of variation of said lease that exists to allow same. Therefore, VCS have no legal authority to operate on my demised land.

I am the registered keeper of several Vehicles where VCS have left Parking Charge Tickets. Firstly, I do not accept that I was the driver but more importantly, when VCS claim breach of Contract for failing to adhere to the Terms and Conditions of entering private land, their claims are without merit. I would appreciate your input and confirmation that these PCN’s are unlawful and therefore unenforceable.

I would like to make a request to have it 'Struck Out' but after spending a great deal of time I am considering whether I may make a claim for compensation, having spent unnecessary time fighting this.


*****
12 August 2018


thoughts?
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Eljayjay
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 14:53
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Well, that’s a very different way of doing things.

Have you checked with the Court Office to see if anything of what you have sent (and, if so, what) has been accepted as a statement of defence?

You really must post your lease here so that we can see what it says.

Residential parking cases involving allocated parking spaces are usually very easily defended, but you have to go about things the right way.
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karenep
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:36
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Tying to upload Lease, says document too big.

This post has been edited by karenep: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:47
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Official_Copy__Lease__15.01.2007___MAN89359.pdf ( 1.16MB ) Number of downloads: 158
 
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Eljayjay
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 23:19
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It looks good.

I shall read it thoroughly later.
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:34
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I have now been through your lease. You will find below my comments on its contents. Further below, you will find my suggestions as to what you should do next.

Obviously, if you believe that I am factually incorrect about anything, please do let me know.


Extract 1 (page 2)

The first very noticeable definition in your lease relates to “Demised Premises” which…

“means the apartment and parking space (if any) shown edged red on the Lease Plan being apartment number <xx> on the third floor and forming part of the Building within the Estate and shall include all floor screed and Insulating material celling materials window glass all internal walls all plaster plasterboard tiling and other internal surfaces of all structural walls and external door (with its frame) of the apartment but not any part of the structure…

Comment 1

Very often, if a lessee has an allocated parking space, it is just a right to park in that space which is granted. Under your own lease, however, you own the parking space in exactly the same way that you own the apartment. The lessor has not reserved any rights over the parking space. It is yours for the duration of the lease. There is, however, a minor restriction almost certainly of no consequence – see Extract/Comment 5 below. Additionally, the Lessor or the Company may vary regulations or make further regulations – see Extract/Comment 7 below.



Other extracts containing words with the stem “park”

Extract 2 (page 2)

“Common Parts”

“means the entrance halls landings staircases passages lifts lift shafts refuse facilities plant rooms car parks pedestrian areas footpaths and drives or access roads and other areas of landscaping forming part of the Estate and intended to enhance the appearance of the Estate or to be amenity areas for the benefit of the owners and lessees for the time being of all Dwellings on the Estate”

Comment 2

This is of no relevance to your case.


Extract 3 (Schedule 3 - Regulations, Regulation 9 on page 15)

“Not to cause any obstruction in or on the main entrances stairways or passages in the Building nor in or on the drives or access roads and footpaths adjacent or leading to the Building by leaving or parking or permitting to be left or parked any motorcycle bicycle perambulator or other vehicle belonging to or used by the Lessee or occupier of the Demised Premises or by any of his friends servants or visitors and to observe all regulations made by the Company from time to time relating to the parking of such vehicles”

Comment 3

Given that this starts “Not to cause any obstruction” and you can hardly cause an obstruction by parking in your own parking space, this is of no relevance to your case. A further pointer in that direction is the fact that, in the list of specified vehicles, it talks about smallish vehicles and “motor car” is noticeable by its absence. Having said that, you may wish to instruct your servants not to park the Bentley on the stairs.


Extract 4 (Schedule 3 - Regulations, Regulation 11 on page 15)

“Not to park or keep on the Estate any mobile home caravan boat or trailer”

I imagine this is of no relevance to your case.


Extract 5 (Schedule 3 - Regulations, Regulation 12 on page 15)

“Not to use or keep or permit to be used or kept any vehicle on any part of the Estate which had not been constructed for such use and not to park or keep on the Estate any trade or commercial vehicle exceeding 15cwt unladen weight”

Comment 5

I imagine that (1) your vehicle was parked somewhere which had been constructed for parking (i.e. your parking space) and (2) your vehicle is not a “trade or commercial vehicle exceeding 15cwt unladen weight”. On these bases, this is of no relevance to your case.


Extract 6 (Clause 3 - The Demise and Rents on page 4)

I have not transcribed Clause 3 due to its length.

Comment 6

In essence, if you pay the Premium (i.e. the purchase price) which, of course, you have done already and if you pay the rent and service charges due, you are entitled to the Demised Premises and the rights in Schedule 1 for the duration of the lease.


Extract 7 (Clause 4 - Provisions with regard to Regulations and the Schedules on page 4)

Clause 4.3 states:-

“The Lessor or the Company may {acting reasonably) vary such regulations or make further regulations for the good management of the Building or the Estate and for the benefit of lessees of Dwellings on the Estate”

Comment 7

There is a high probability that no regulations have been varied and no new regulations have been made by the Lessor or the Company. If that is not the case, the Lessor or the Company should have notified you of the changes and/or additions made.

Even if some additional regulations about parking have been made, the important words in this extract are “acting reasonably”.

In effect, what has happened on the Estate is that a private car park for the benefit of residents has been turned into a car park available for use by all-comers who are willing to pay an exorbitant amount for parking. That is not “acting reasonably”.

In doing that, either the Lessor or the Company or someone else has invited the parking company to use the parking spaces (including your own parking space) for the purposes of its business. In your case, of course, the parking space has been demised to you and, whoever the culprit is, they had no right to do that. That is not “acting reasonably”. [There is really no difference between the culprit doing that and the culprit letting your apartment without your permission.]

Additionally, of course, the culprit has attempted to render you liable for the payment of parking charges when you park in your allocated parking space when, in fact, the monetary entitlements of the other parties to the lease are restricted to service charges and rent, nothing more and nothing less. An agent, such as the parking company, cannot impose charges upon you if its principal (i.e. the Lessor or the Company or anyone else) has no right to impose those charges. So, that is not “acting reasonably”.

The parking company will very probably seek to claim that it is providing you with a service, but that is almost certainly not true. My own experience of parking companies in residential car parks is that they are useless. If a trespasser is parked in your parking space when you arrive at your apartment, they will do nothing to secure the trespassing vehicle’s removal. At most, all they will do, is affix a parking charge notice to the trespassing vehicle to enable themselves to make money out of your parking space. They will not offer a share of that money to you to compensate you for the cost of having to park elsewhere. The parking company will also very likely claim that their aim is to deter trespassing vehicles from parking in residents’ spaces; however, if they succeed in that aim, their only remaining victims are the residents themselves. None of this is “acting reasonably”.

Regulations made on these bases are not “for the good management of the Building or the Estate and for the benefit of lessees of Dwellings on the Estate”. The word “and” is extremely important here – it means that any regulations must serve both purposes. Clearly, charging lessees exorbitant amounts for parking in their own spaces is not “acting reasonably”.

So, all in all, it is my belief that Clause 4.3 is of no relevance to your case.


Comment 8 [Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999]

Generally, a third party (i.e. someone, such as the parking company, who is not a party to a contract – your lease is, of course, a contract) cannot enforce a term of the contract. An exception is, however, made if the contract includes a clause permitting the third party to enforce a term.

Without such a clause (and, if such a clause exists in your lease, I cannot find it), even if (despite what I have said in Comment 7) some valid regulations have been made in accordance with the lease and those regulations include a term purporting to allow the parking company to charge you for parking, the parking company cannot enforce that term.


Next Steps

I believe that what you need to do is as follows:-

1. Turn these notes into a proper statement of defence as quickly as possible, i.e. within the next couple of days.

2. Email the Court Office with the statement of defence attached, explaining that, due to a complete lack of knowledge about the correct procedures, you entirely misunderstood what you were supposed to do and requesting the Judge to accept the attachment as your revised statement of defence.

3. At the same time, you will need to email or post the revised statement of defence to the parking company’s solicitors (if the claim form was completed by its solicitors) or the parking company itself (if the claim form was completed by VCS).

4. If you are happy to go down this route, let me know and I shall start drafting the statement of defence for you.

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karenep
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 13:06
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This is so helpful, and gives me a totally clear picture of what I should do and what I should have done. You are correct, I completely lack knowledge. If you are happy drafting the statement of defence, I would very much appreciate that. Thank you ELJAJAY
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 13:35
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OK, I shall get started.


The other thing to be done is to request the Court to hear all three cases together.

In addition, do you know (1) when the parking company started its operations where you live and (2) the cost of parking for a day in your nearest public car park?
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