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Mobile phone tracking, Can a tracker be put on company mobile phones
Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 09:50
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A friend of mine is an operations manager for a compnay that supplies TV, internet and phone acess in hospitals. He is considering advising his employees, who travel between home and hospitals, about putting trackers on their company mobile phones.

What process does he have to go through to ensure it complies with the legal rights of the employees.


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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 18:26
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 18:08) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 18:50) *
God forbid that yours or my relatives are stressed out in a hospital because they can't communicate with us because the terminal is down and the engineer thinks he can get away with an extra hour in bed, after having a night out on the town.

Well the company can advise or require tracking to monitor employees, all sorts of companies do this. However if the data will be used to prevent skiving, employees need to be made aware of this.

What would provably fall foul of the law would be, for example, to tell people that the data will only be used in the event of a life of death emergency, and then use the data to check who's getting an extra hour in bed.

Please refer to refer to my Post #5 in this thread I did refer to company policy, which in essence does not in any shape or form disguise any intentions.

My post was to find out possible ways of finding a mutual agreement between employers and employees. No doubt some employees will find this is an infringement upon their freedom to do whatever they want.

From what I understand the majority of employees play ball. Whilst some take advantage, to the detriment of patients.

Please give some advice on the legal implementation of trackers, for yours and our families.


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666
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 19:53
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I had experience about 15 years ago of introducing vehicle tracking to a fleet of mobile engineers. While there was some resistance to the "spy in the cab" it was mostly welcomed, both for safety concerNs and in the belief that better-informed dispatching decisions would result.

However, these days there is a greater awareness of data protection issues, and of course mobile phones track the person rather than the vehicle.

But it doesn't seem at all unreasonable for a company to want to know where its employees are during working hours. Can't they just switch the phone off when off duty if they don't want to be tracked?
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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 20:08
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QUOTE (666 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 19:53) *
I had experience about 15 years ago of introducing vehicle tracking to a fleet of mobile engineers. While there was some resistance to the "spy in the cab" it was mostly welcomed, both for safety concerNs and in the belief that better-informed dispatching decisions would result.

However, these days there is a greater awareness of data protection issues, and of course mobile phones track the person rather than the vehicle.

But it doesn't seem at all unreasonable for a company to want to know where its employees are during working hours. Can't they just switch the phone off when off duty if they don't want to be tracked?

Spot on the thread. I suspect the company will use the data it collects in company's time. The collection of data will be predominately real time and only analysed during the period of when employees are working. There will be a time when employees will say sorry forgot to switch my phone on. But in time it will become the norm and acceptable. Some employees have taken advantage of not being under the scrutiny of the company.


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mashman36
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 21:46
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What a load of tripe this is !
Its easy you come to site any given day of the week before your engineer attends you send an email to a PTB officer / estates officer saying engineer will be on site said time will sign in have a face to face with officer and sign on a permit to work with a rams report .signed time n date.they have to report back to the officer before leaving site. We have personal lone work alarms that we give to contractors in all intensive purposes are shite !
once they are on site best of british in tracking them unless you have military grade satellites to pinpoint them.
Whats to say they have to park off site and phones been forgotten left on charge in vehicle miles away .
I used to park in hotel off j1 m1 hotel car park then tube it into central london n left phone in hands free cradle !lets also the patient confidentiality act some places make you switch off and hand your phone in and give you a two way radio back to a command post.
lets throw the enhanced CRB cert as well !

This post has been edited by mashman36: Sun, 13 May 2018 - 22:16
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Mayhem007
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:12
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QUOTE (mashman36 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 21:46) *
What a load of tripe this is !
Its easy you come to site any given day of the week before your engineer attends you send an email to a PTB officer / estates officer saying engineer will be on site said time will sign in have a face to face with officer and sign on a permit to work with a rams report .signed time n date.they have to report back to the officer before leaving site. We have personal lone work alarms that we give to contractors in all intensive purposes are shite !
once they are on site best of british in tracking them unless you have military grade satellites to pinpoint them.
Whats to say they have to park off site and phones been forgotten left on charge in vehicle miles away .
I used to park in hotel off j1 m1 hotel car park then tube it into central london n left phone in hands free cradle !lets also the patient confidentiality act some places make you switch off and hand your phone in and give you a two way radio back to a command post.
lets throw the enhanced CRB cert as well !


You appear to be comparing apples to pears.

There is no signing in, risk assessments or permits. The company has in each hospital that they serve an office with all the computers, servers and spares. It essential for the engineers, supervisors and advisors to carry their mobile phones in order to fully function and resolve any problems over the phone that they may not be able to rectify themselves.

If they are working on a patients' terminals then they may need to speak to the IT guys at head office on their mobiles, especially if the patients landline is down. I would imagine they use VOIP. Leaving phones in vehicles is against company policy, they are required to carry the phones at all times.


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nigelbb
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:24
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Exactly what problem are you trying to fix? Do you suspect mobile workers of skiving off when they are supposed to be working? If so come clean & say so. Personally I think it's all a bit Big Brother to be tagging your employees. You have a poor opinion of your employees if the culture has the workers taking the piss & bunking off when they should be working. In anywise as long as the work gets done does it matter where the employees are from one minute to the next?


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Mayhem007
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:34
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:24) *
Exactly what problem are you trying to fix? Do you suspect mobile workers of skiving off when they are supposed to be working? If so come clean & say so. Personally I think it's all a bit Big Brother to be tagging your employees. You have a poor opinion of your employees if the culture has the workers taking the piss & bunking off when they should be working. In anywise as long as the work gets done does it matter where the employees are from one minute to the next?

Refer to post #1


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axeman
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:02
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I used to have a company vehicle with tracker on and they loved being in control, constantly ringing you as soon a the vehicle moved, tried to play big brother I learned about GPS / phone signal blockers and plugged it into the ciggy socket then unplugged it later (many times a day) they where pretty new to the market and the company did not know about them, I was called in dozens of times to check the faulty tracker, a couple of other engineers did the same and it caused problems for the controllers, pocket size and easy to hide.

http://www.cellphonejammers.co.uk/product.php?id_product=25

Not the one I used but a starter for ten.


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nigelbb
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:18
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:34) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:24) *
Exactly what problem are you trying to fix? Do you suspect mobile workers of skiving off when they are supposed to be working? If so come clean & say so. Personally I think it's all a bit Big Brother to be tagging your employees. You have a poor opinion of your employees if the culture has the workers taking the piss & bunking off when they should be working. In anywise as long as the work gets done does it matter where the employees are from one minute to the next?

Refer to post #1

The reason I posted a reply asking the question is that post #1 does not provide any answer to the motivation of the employer merely that they want to put a tracker on their employees phones in a legal manner. Your subsequent replies don't answer the question either.

So let me ask the question once again. What is the problem that putting a tracker on employees mobile phones is designed to fix?

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:19


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Mayhem007
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:28
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:18) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:34) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:24) *
Exactly what problem are you trying to fix? Do you suspect mobile workers of skiving off when they are supposed to be working? If so come clean & say so. Personally I think it's all a bit Big Brother to be tagging your employees. You have a poor opinion of your employees if the culture has the workers taking the piss & bunking off when they should be working. In anywise as long as the work gets done does it matter where the employees are from one minute to the next?

Refer to post #1

The reason I posted a reply asking the question is that post #1 does not provide any answer to the motivation of the employer merely that they want to put a tracker on their employees phones in a legal manner. Your subsequent replies don't answer the question either.

So let me ask the question once again. What is the problem that putting a tracker on employees mobile phones is designed to fix?


Refer to post #5


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big_mac
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:50
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 18:18) *
So let me ask the question once again. What is the problem that putting a tracker on employees mobile phones is designed to fix?

to ensure that employees are constantly reminded that they are expendable?
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nigelbb
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:58
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 18:28) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 17:18) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 16:34) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 15:24) *
Exactly what problem are you trying to fix? Do you suspect mobile workers of skiving off when they are supposed to be working? If so come clean & say so. Personally I think it's all a bit Big Brother to be tagging your employees. You have a poor opinion of your employees if the culture has the workers taking the piss & bunking off when they should be working. In anywise as long as the work gets done does it matter where the employees are from one minute to the next?

Refer to post #1

The reason I posted a reply asking the question is that post #1 does not provide any answer to the motivation of the employer merely that they want to put a tracker on their employees phones in a legal manner. Your subsequent replies don't answer the question either.

So let me ask the question once again. What is the problem that putting a tracker on employees mobile phones is designed to fix?


Refer to post #5

FFS why are you so evasive? Post #5 doesn't answer my question either. It provides some vague justification for why the employer wants to tag their employees but doesn't say what the problem that you think tracking the employees phones will address? Safety of lone workers is total bollox & the "current company policy" isn't specified.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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StuartBu
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:32
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 18:58) *
FFS why are you so evasive? Post #5 doesn't answer my question either. It provides some vague justification for why the employer wants to tag their employees but doesn't say what the problem that you think tracking the employees phones will address? Safety of lone workers is total bollox & the "current company policy" isn't specified.

I asked in my first post what the point of this was and also in several follow up questions and all I got was a load of waffle. Like you I think " safety of lone workers" is a load of bollox but I refrained from saying so.
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Tartarus
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52
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As someone who works for a company that provides mobile vehicle trackers, I can say with reasonably comfidence that the number one reason for installing them in vehicles is to stop drivers from using the vehicles for non-work related activities.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Mon, 14 May 2018 - 21:50
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I understand a tracker being added to a car- for insurance purposes of course.

If my employer tried to put one on a company supplied phone, I'd be looking at alternative jobs and in the meantime would have the phone in flight mode as often as possible. If I ever kept the phone on during my personal time (i.e. lunch breaks, before/after work or at weekends), it would be switched off and left on company premises or in a company vehicle.

It comes across as not being trusted and being spied on. I don't believe for a minute its a safety thing. I think its a 'we can make sure Johnny's not stopping at the roll shop 3 times a day and taking an extended lunchbreak'. IMO if the jobs are being done and customers aren't complaining, whats the need?

Do these engineers have tracked company vehicles? I'd suggest if they already have tracked vehicles, there won't be many issues. If they don't track vehicles already, why not? If not already tracked, your friend will need to find a way to keep these guys sweet or become friends with a decent recruitment expert.

This post has been edited by glasgow_bhoy: Mon, 14 May 2018 - 21:51
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Mayhem007
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:05
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
As someone who works for a company that provides mobile vehicle trackers, I can say with reasonably comfidence that the number one reason for installing them in vehicles is to stop drivers from using the vehicles for non-work related activities.


Pretty much on the nail. The main reason, they are trying to see if they can logistically dispense with one of the vehicles and still carry out normal operations, when the van leases expire. Some of the vehicles are clocking up miles, which penalizes the company.They are concerned about a small minority employees using the vehicle for their own purposes, as there is frequently extra miles on the speedo, in excess of a round trip to their place of work.
Putting trackers on the vehicles is excessive, more expensive and provides additional data that the company is not interested in.
Having phone trackers does have some aspects of safety and client/customer care associated with it.
Where I work all the technicians have mobile phones, this is how we communicate on our massive sight; we don't radios. We also have regular set days when we are on call out and I personally have no problems if the company put a tracker on my phone.


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mashman36
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:08
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Easy charge back the mileage .
We had a pool car/van with a mileage log book .
Log miles before n after company use if any more the employee paid at so much a mile.
That stopd the piss taking!
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southpaw82
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:09
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Well, the company needs to say that then. It can't hide behind some BS about safety when the real reason it's processing the data is something else.


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cp8759
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:11
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:09) *
Well, the company needs to say that then. It can't hide behind some BS about safety when the real reason it's processing the data is something else.

+1.


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Mayhem007
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:17
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 17:09) *
Well, the company needs to say that then. It can't hide behind some BS about safety when the real reason it's processing the data is something else.

Well done SP pretty much what I said in post #5


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