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Mobile phone tracking, Can a tracker be put on company mobile phones
Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 09:50
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A friend of mine is an operations manager for a compnay that supplies TV, internet and phone acess in hospitals. He is considering advising his employees, who travel between home and hospitals, about putting trackers on their company mobile phones.

What process does he have to go through to ensure it complies with the legal rights of the employees.


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StuartBu
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 10:59
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 10:50) *
A friend of mine is an operations manager for a company that supplies TV, internet and phone acess in hospitals. He is considering advising his employees, who travel between home and hospitals, about putting trackers on their company mobile phones.

What process does he have to go through to ensure it complies with the legal rights of the employees.


Has he indicated why he feels this is necessary .
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DancingDad
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 11:44
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If he is advising, not sure there are any legal hurdles, it would be voluntary.
If he is making it mandatory, it would possibly be a change to T&Cs of the contract of employment.
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cp8759
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 11:53
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 12:44) *
If he is advising, not sure there are any legal hurdles, it would be voluntary.
If he is making it mandatory, it would possibly be a change to T&Cs of the contract of employment.

Even if it is voluntary, the Data Protection Act is in play because the data is personal data. If the company has access to the tracking data, the company is arguable a data controller, so I imagine there would be a need for retention periods and policies to be in place, and also a need to give a data protection notice. The GDPR coming in later this month will no doubt add to the requirements.


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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 13:39
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Thanks for the replies.

There are two reasons

1. To ensure the safety of lone workers

2. To ensure that employees comply with present company policy.

I take on board that the employees will have to be notified of the data that is being collected and they must be advise of the reasons for collecting the data. And the company needs to make changes to the T&C's. Additionally it is the company's responsibility to ensure the employees agree to such a change before the implimatation of the mobile phone trackers.


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southpaw82
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:29
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The company will need to identify which of the lawful grounds it is using to process the data. Consent is an iffy one in an employment scenario due to the imbalance of power.


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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:41
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:29) *
The company will need to identify which of the lawful grounds it is using to process the data. Consent is an iffy one in an employment scenario due to the imbalance of power.


Can one of the possible lawful grounds be based on compliance with company policy


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Fredd
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:47
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:41) *
Can one of the possible lawful grounds be based on compliance with company policy

That would be a bit like saying "because we say so", wouldn't it?


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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:17
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:41) *
Can one of the possible lawful grounds be based on compliance with company policy

That would be a bit like saying "because we say so", wouldn't it?

No not at all. It is not a case of our way or the highway. This thread is a genuine way of finding an agreed solution beween all parties to find a way of providing a mechanism for increased safety of lone workers and constructing a framework for the efficiency of the company. At the end of the day if a company can not maximise its efficiency, it's not a singular person that loses out, but possibly an entire workforce.

QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:41) *
Can one of the possible lawful grounds be based on compliance with company policy

That would be a bit like saying "because we say so", wouldn't it?

No not at all. It is not a case of our way or the highway. This thread is a genuine way of finding an agreed solution beween all parties to find a way of providing a mechanism for increased safety of lone workers and constructing a framework for the efficiency of the company. At the end of the day if a company can not maximise its efficiency, it's not a singular person that loses out, but possibly an entire workforce.


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StuartBu
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:39
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:39) *
Thanks for the replies.

There are two reasons

1. To ensure the safety of lone workers


I'm not sure that having knowledge of where an employee is at any chosen moment is going to do much to ensure their safety . Knowing where they are doesn't mean they are not in bother. If an employee gets in to a difficult situation then it's likely that the employee will contact the employer to say so including saying where they are . It would only be in the rare event of them going totally out of contact that the tracker saying whereabouts they are located ( or at least where the phone is) might be of use .
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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:42
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:39) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:39) *
Thanks for the replies.

There are two reasons

1. To ensure the safety of lone workers


I'm not sure that having knowledge of where an employee is at any chosen moment is going to do much to ensure their safety . Knowing where they are doesn't mean they are not in bother. If an employee gets in to a difficult situation then it's likely that the employee will contact the employer to say so including saying where they are . It would only be in the rare event of them going totally out of contact that the tracker saying whereabouts they are located ( or at least where the phone is) might be of use .

Does that include injury or an accident.


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Fredd
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:03
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:17) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:41) *
Can one of the possible lawful grounds be based on compliance with company policy

That would be a bit like saying "because we say so", wouldn't it?

No not at all. It is not a case of our way or the highway. This thread is a genuine way of finding an agreed solution beween all parties to find a way of providing a mechanism for increased safety of lone workers and constructing a framework for the efficiency of the company. At the end of the day if a company can not maximise its efficiency, it's not a singular person that loses out, but possibly an entire workforce.

My point was that the company can't just say "it's policy" - that very much is "because we say so". They have to ensure that their use and retention of any personal data matches as a result of their policy is consistent with specific lawful uses set out in the Data Protection Act/GDPR.


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StuartBu
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:04
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:42) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:39) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:39) *
Thanks for the replies.

There are two reasons

1. To ensure the safety of lone workers


I'm not sure that having knowledge of where an employee is at any chosen moment is going to do much to ensure their safety . Knowing where they are doesn't mean they are not in bother. If an employee gets in to a difficult situation then it's likely that the employee will contact the employer to say so including saying where they are . It would only be in the rare event of them going totally out of contact that the tracker saying whereabouts they are located ( or at least where the phone is) might be of use .

Does that include injury or an accident.


You tell me ..The employer must have scenarios in their mind to be even thinking of employee safety . If the employee has an injury or an accident but is able to operate a mobile phone then they phone for help and explain what has happened and where they are ...it's unlikely they won't know where they are are . If ,for example they have an accident but are unconscious is it not likely that they will be somewhere where others are aware of the situation so they will summon assistance . It would only be in the event of them having an accident in some isolated spot and unconscious that knowing where the phone is would be of help but that would depend on it being noted that the phone hadn't moved and so on .
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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:14
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:04) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:42) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:39) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:39) *
Thanks for the replies.

There are two reasons

1. To ensure the safety of lone workers


I'm not sure that having knowledge of where an employee is at any chosen moment is going to do much to ensure their safety . Knowing where they are doesn't mean they are not in bother. If an employee gets in to a difficult situation then it's likely that the employee will contact the employer to say so including saying where they are . It would only be in the rare event of them going totally out of contact that the tracker saying whereabouts they are located ( or at least where the phone is) might be of use .

Does that include injury or an accident.


You tell me ..The employer must have scenarios in their mind to be even thinking of employee safety . If the employee has an injury or an accident but is able to operate a mobile phone then they phone for help and explain what has happened and where they are ...it's unlikely they won't know where they are are . If ,for example they have an accident but are unconscious is it not likely that they will be somewhere where others are aware of the situation so they will summon assistance . It would only be in the event of them having an accident in some isolated spot and unconscious that knowing where the phone is would be of help but that would depend on it being noted that the phone hadn't moved and so on .

So if a hospital phones up the company and says we have some patients have arrived in a ward and they want, for example, the facility to speak with their family and would like Internet and phone access, however your engineer hasn't turned up as usual.


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StuartBu
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:22
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:14) *
So if a hospital phones up the company and says we have some patients have arrived in a ward and they want, for example, the facility to speak with their family and would like Internet and phone access, however your engineer hasn't turned up as usual.


Why do you need to know where the phone is to resolve that situation ...you phone whoever the engineer is and speak to them ......what does the employer do just now without tracking ?

Anyway ignoring the unlikely nature of the situation you present don't they have mobile phones with them so they can phone their family? .
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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:45
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:22) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:14) *
So if a hospital phones up the company and says we have some patients have arrived in a ward and they want, for example, the facility to speak with their family and would like Internet and phone access, however your engineer hasn't turned up as usual.


Why do you need to know where the phone is to resolve that situation ...you phone whoever the engineer is and speak to them ......what does the employer do just now without tracking ?

Anyway ignoring the unlikely nature of the situation you present don't they have mobile phones with them so they can phone their family? .

Not too sure what you mean by unlikely situation when all the engineers spend most of their time travelling. Continuos mprovement is good for safety as well as efficient productivity. It's not such a bad thing also for customer care.

At the end of the day I'm trying to exploit the possibility of advising my friend that putting mobile phone trackers is beneficial to employees, employers and customers under a mutual agreement by all and complies with current legislation.


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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:26
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:03) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:17) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 15:41) *
Can one of the possible lawful grounds be based on compliance with company policy

That would be a bit like saying "because we say so", wouldn't it?

No not at all. It is not a case of our way or the highway. This thread is a genuine way of finding an agreed solution beween all parties to find a way of providing a mechanism for increased safety of lone workers and constructing a framework for the efficiency of the company. At the end of the day if a company can not maximise its efficiency, it's not a singular person that loses out, but possibly an entire workforce.

My point was that the company can't just say "it's policy" - that very much is "because we say so". They have to ensure that their use and retention of any personal data matches as a result of their policy is consistent with specific lawful uses set out in the Data Protection Act/GDPR.


Sorry Fred missed your reply.

I haven't stated any enforcement of this proposal. I realise that the inclusion of this into company policy has to be reasonable with clear understanding by all that it has specific reasons under the the protective umbrella data protection act for the companys' employees. This thread is all about the possible implementation of mobile trackers, whilst ensuring their rights and safety.


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StuartBu
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:29
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:45) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:22) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:14) *
So if a hospital phones up the company and says we have some patients have arrived in a ward and they want, for example, the facility to speak with their family and would like Internet and phone access, however your engineer hasn't turned up as usual.


Why do you need to know where the phone is to resolve that situation ...you phone whoever the engineer is and speak to them ......what does the employer do just now without tracking ?

Anyway ignoring the unlikely nature of the situation you present don't they have mobile phones with them so they can phone their family? .

Not too sure what you mean by unlikely situation when all the engineers spend most of their time travelling. Continuos mprovement is good for safety as well as efficient productivity. It's not such a bad thing also for customer care.

At the end of the day I'm trying to exploit the possibility of advising my friend that putting mobile phone trackers is beneficial to employees, employers and customers under a mutual agreement by all and complies with current legislation.


I was referring to the patients arriving at the hospital
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Mayhem007
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:50
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:29) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:45) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 16:22) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 17:14) *
So if a hospital phones up the company and says we have some patients have arrived in a ward and they want, for example, the facility to speak with their family and would like Internet and phone access, however your engineer hasn't turned up as usual.


Why do you need to know where the phone is to resolve that situation ...you phone whoever the engineer is and speak to them ......what does the employer do just now without tracking ?

Anyway ignoring the unlikely nature of the situation you present don't they have mobile phones with them so they can phone their family? .

Not too sure what you mean by unlikely situation when all the engineers spend most of their time travelling. Continuos mprovement is good for safety as well as efficient productivity. It's not such a bad thing also for customer care.

At the end of the day I'm trying to exploit the possibility of advising my friend that putting mobile phone trackers is beneficial to employees, employers and customers under a mutual agreement by all and complies with current legislation.


I was referring to the patients arriving at the hospital

I see where you're coming from. It would be great if our older generation had the facility of a mobile phone in a ward with a decent signal, however bonnielad lad you can't beat the landlines. And life doesn't throw those rose petals at us.

Patients with communication to media and family down a landline to take their mind off their frustrations, with an engineer or advisor to offer assistance when they most need it, not such a bad thing.

God forbid that yours or my relatives are stressed out in a hospital because they can't communicate with us because the terminal is down and the engineer thinks he can get away with an extra hour in bed, after having a night out on the town.


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cp8759
post Sun, 13 May 2018 - 18:08
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 13 May 2018 - 18:50) *
God forbid that yours or my relatives are stressed out in a hospital because they can't communicate with us because the terminal is down and the engineer thinks he can get away with an extra hour in bed, after having a night out on the town.

Well the company can advise or require tracking to monitor employees, all sorts of companies do this. However if the data will be used to prevent skiving, employees need to be made aware of this.

What would provably fall foul of the law would be, for example, to tell people that the data will only be used in the event of a life of death emergency, and then use the data to check who's getting an extra hour in bed.


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