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Why dont the Police enfore the law regarding cyclists?
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post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 22:14
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In the last few weeks, I've nearly had collisions with two cyclists both at night, both had jumped red lights and both had no lights on their bicycles.

Last Saturday night, I saw a cyclist fall over because he lost control, no other vehicles involved. I went to check if he was ok, he was and was going to ride off without lights.

I told him he didn't have any lights and he said he had reflectors. I told him reflectors are not good enough.

If I drive a car without lights the Police are likely to stop me and possibly report me. Ditto for a motorcyclist.

If I'm caught jumping a red light I'm likely to be reported.

Cyclists seem to get away with breaking all the rules and laws.

Why wont the Police take some action? It seems that Cyclists are above the law and a law unto themselves.

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post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 22:14
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cp8759
post Sun, 27 May 2018 - 19:12
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 27 May 2018 - 19:59) *
As for equitable, currently as a pedestrian or cyclist you can either be unrepresented with the certainty the insurance company will tell you to s*d off. Or use a claims firm which will rinse the insurance company for every penny possible.

There is a third way, which I have used more than once, i.e. to be an unrepresented litigant, give the insurance company a fair chance to settle, and if they refuse go to court as a litigant in person and rinse them for every penny possible.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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southpaw82
post Sun, 27 May 2018 - 19:14
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 27 May 2018 - 19:59) *
Both examples are where the potential claim is very high.


RTAs can have high values. Occupiers' liability can have a low quantum. In fact, the quantum in those cases are very often less than RTA cases.

QUOTE
As for equitable, currently as a pedestrian or cyclist you can either be unrepresented with the certainty the insurance company will tell you to s*d off. Or use a claims firm which will rinse the insurance company for every penny possible.


Or a lawyer direct, potentially on a CFA, no?

QUOTE
Bearing in mind TRL figures show that most accidents the motorist was solely or jointly to blame (as recorded by police officers) it is a fairly high price to pay so a minority can prove a point.


Police officers aren’t the arbitrators of blame. Unless they’re an accident investigator their opinion evidence isn’t even admissible.

You say "prove a point", others say "establish legal rights, aka justice".


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Richy320
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 18:02
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From another thread.

QUOTE (samthecat @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 14:19) *
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26


If the police ever enforced this law regarding cyclists, 90% of drivers would have a ticket within a month.

This post has been edited by Richy320: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 18:03


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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 18:20
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To true, I’ve been overtaken by cars while waiting behind a cyclist doing 15-20mph where there is a solid white line.


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oldstoat
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 18:36
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If you expect the police to do anything regards anything these days you are sadly mistaken. One of my colleagues, on tuesday 07.06.18, was at a set of traffic lights in an HGV with a 13m trailer. The lights went red. He stopped. He saw individuals running into the road, and became aware the individuals where opening his trailer doors. He got out of his cab. The individuals then decamped from the trailer and sped off in a car which was along side, which mounted the pavement to get past the red light traffic. He looked around and noticed a POLICE CAR with unifored officers two cars behind his trailer. He went up to them and spoke to the officers. There only reaction was to offer him a crime number. The officers where less than 20 feet from the back of the trailer and made no effort to leave their car, nor leave it even after being approached by my colleague.


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cp8759
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 21:20
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 19:36) *
If you expect the police to do anything regards anything these days you are sadly mistaken. One of my colleagues, on tuesday 07.06.18, was at a set of traffic lights in an HGV with a 13m trailer. The lights went red. He stopped. He saw individuals running into the road, and became aware the individuals where opening his trailer doors. He got out of his cab. The individuals then decamped from the trailer and sped off in a car which was along side, which mounted the pavement to get past the red light traffic. He looked around and noticed a POLICE CAR with unifored officers two cars behind his trailer. He went up to them and spoke to the officers. There only reaction was to offer him a crime number. The officers where less than 20 feet from the back of the trailer and made no effort to leave their car, nor leave it even after being approached by my colleague.

I would have taken their collar numbers and made a complaint. I know of at least one case where, in similar circumstances, two officers were dismissed from their force for neglect of duty.

QUOTE (Richy320 @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 19:02) *
From another thread.

QUOTE (samthecat @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 14:19) *
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26


If the police ever enforced this law regarding cyclists, 90% of drivers would have a ticket within a month.

That would rely on the police sitting by the side of the road and getting an evidential speed reading for the bicycle while it is being overtaken. Otherwise they can't prove it was doing more than 10 mph.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Redivi
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 09:12
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QUOTE (Richy320 @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 19:02) *
From another thread.

QUOTE (samthecat @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 14:19) *
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26


If the police ever enforced this law regarding cyclists, 90% of drivers would have a ticket within a month.

Permission to pass a cyclist causes a lot of confusion
I always thought it was 8 mph but give myself the benefit of the doubt

Would rather that there was a right to pass cyclists but it's an automatic driving without due care if another vehicle is inconvenienced

Where is the specific legislation stating the speed other than the Highway Code ?

Rather surprised that some of the more aggressive cycling groups haven't organised a day of members cycling along suitably marked roads at 12 mph and reporting every car that overtakes

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southpaw82
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 09:23
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 10:12) *
Would rather that there was a right to pass cyclists but it's an automatic driving without due care if another vehicle is inconvenienced


Driving without reasonable consideration is already an offence.

QUOTE
Where is the specific legislation stating the speed other than the Highway Code ?

TSRGD, Sch 9, Part 7, Para 9

QUOTE
Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(b) is to be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so—

(a) to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b) in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c) owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d) in order to avoid an accident;
(e) in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear a sign provided for at item 9 or 10 of the sign table in Part 6 of Schedule 13;
(f) in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g) in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h) for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform, a traffic officer in uniform or a traffic warden.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 09:28
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 10:12) *
...….Where is the specific legislation stating the speed other than the Highway Code ?...…...



TSRGD 2016 Schedule 9, part 7(9)(5)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/made

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 10:15
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Redivi
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 09:50
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Thank You Both

I couldn't find it
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Fredd
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 10:35
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 10:50) *
I couldn't find it

Maybe you haven't noticed before, but the Highway Code includes references to relevant law:
QUOTE
Rule 129

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26


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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 14:01
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 10:12) *
Rather surprised that some of the more aggressive cycling groups haven't organised a day of members cycling along suitably marked roads at 12 mph and reporting every car that overtakes

I think you will find cyclists are the most vociferous opponents of pointless DWL as it is in everyone's interests to have plenty of space to overtake.

Two examples on my way to work, both wide roads, two lanes with an extra lane of hatchings in the centre. Great for cyclists as motorists have loads of space to overtake. Great for motorists as they can pass other vehicles easily.

One 50mph limit they have painted DWLs on both sides of the hatchings. Most motorists very sensibly ignore it but you get the odd one who does the "right" thing and tries to squeeze past within the line.

One 30mph limit they decided to put two metre wide cycle lanes down both sides and DWLs down the middle. Unfortunately this being the council they made the cycle lanes a gully so they are full of puddles, grit, broken glass, parked cars, bus stops (yes, they left the bus stops in the middle of the cycle lane). But of course if/when you have to go into the road everyone is now stuck behind you and annoyed you aren't using the underwater cycle lane.

The current trends to have build outs, artificial narrowing etc... Terrible for motorists, terrible for cyclists.

tl;dr allowing cars to overtake any vehicle with plentry of room is as beneficial to cyclists as it is tomotorists.


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VANDRVR
post Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 13:10
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The one possible way to stop cyclist mayhem is to have number plates just like on scooters. Big enough to ID and thats it.

Then have a 100 strong motorcycle police team patrolling, enforcing the rule by confiscating the bikes that don't have plates with a £100 fine, just like a motor vehicles. I mean, financially speaking, it would be a massive money maker for the councils anyway LOL.

At the end of the day, any argument that plates can then be duplicated would be ridiculous as the same thing can then be argued with motor vehicles (which is the case.) So I suppose we should all rip off our number plates? Thought not.

If multiple offenses take place, the bike is then ID'd via ANPR, stopped, and confiscated until the rider comes forward, or your bike is crushed after 14 days. Once again, just like motor vehicles.

I'm surprised a cash strapped country like England still hasn't thought of this. HAHA (sorry cyclists. biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by VANDRVR: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 13:12
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VANDRVR
post Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 13:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfLaC2RPOhg
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southpaw82
post Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 17:35
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QUOTE (VANDRVR @ Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 14:10) *
The one possible way to stop cyclist mayhem is to have number plates just like on scooters. Big enough to ID and thats it.

Then have a 100 strong motorcycle police team patrolling, enforcing the rule by confiscating the bikes that don't have plates with a £100 fine, just like a motor vehicles. I mean, financially speaking, it would be a massive money maker for the councils anyway LOL.

At the end of the day, any argument that plates can then be duplicated would be ridiculous as the same thing can then be argued with motor vehicles (which is the case.) So I suppose we should all rip off our number plates? Thought not.

If multiple offenses take place, the bike is then ID'd via ANPR, stopped, and confiscated until the rider comes forward, or your bike is crushed after 14 days. Once again, just like motor vehicles.

I'm surprised a cash strapped country like England still hasn't thought of this. HAHA (sorry cyclists. biggrin.gif)

You seem to have an interesting grasp of the circumstances under which a motor vehicle will be seized.


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Dwain
post Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 21:53
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All I will say is that since my son started traing for Iron Man I am a hell of a lot more aware of cyclyists. I was pretty good before, but those riding side by side got the same passing distance as single riders. Now I just sit back and wait until I can give them enough space, or they start riding consideratly.

Around here (North Manchester area) Traffic lights appear to be advisory to cyclists and motorists alike.
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