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Contravention code 16 Newham, Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid pe
bono1976
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:23
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Hi all,

January 18 I have received a PCN from Newham for Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit.(Contravention code 16) for both cars (mine and my wife's).
Both of the cars had displayed valid visitors permits. I've used them because moved recently to new zone and had no chance to change the resident parking permits.
I've appealed to Newham but they send me a letter that will not cancel the penalties.

Am I have ground to carry on or just pay the penalties?

I don't know the procedure and what should I do further and how, after they decided not to cancel my penalties.
I'm attached letters from Newham and pictures from their website for the displayed visitors permits.


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post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:23
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:44
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I would carry on, but would write back to them now before the NTO

Dear sirs

thank you for your letter in response to may challenge to the issuance of PCN number xxxxxxx. I am perplexed as to the reason for your rejection. Please confirm what part of the permit the CEO believes has been altered, in anattempt to re use this permit


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nextdoor
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:48
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Another Newham ticket that alleges the visitor permit has been used before, yet the photos of the permit apparently show no evidence of having been altered.

I wonder if it's the same CEO?
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:53
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:44) *
I would carry on, but would write back to them now before the NTO

Dear sirs

thank you for your letter in response to may challenge to the issuance of PCN number xxxxxxx. I am perplexed as to the reason for your rejection. Please confirm what part of the permit the CEO believes has been altered, in anattempt to re use this permit

Agreed.
This is getting ridiculous.
And is being queried in general. (members will know what I mean).


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 13:06
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I use these regularly and I've taken to the habit of completing them as faint as possible, then put pen
in glove box and a pencil on the dash.
Can't get a PCN for trying!


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 13:19
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QUOTE (bono1976 @ Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:23) *
pictures from their website for the displayed visitors permits.

Can we have the PCN numbers so we can look please.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 18:14
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If a permit for that place was displayed why did you not get a Code 19 and a smaller penalty charge?

Mick
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bono1976
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 18:45
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Hi all,
Thanks for your quick response and support on this.
Please see attached penalty charge notices.

I don't know what code 19 mean.

Are they will send a Notice to the owner after 14 days from the letter issued?
Just to ask if I send letter to council tomorrow, is that not too late for them to look at it again, because I presume that tomorrow is deadline for penalty to be paid at reduced rate.


Regards
Iv
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cp8759
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 18:49
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Can you show us the back of the PCNs please? Also, did you spill tea on them or something, or did they look like that when you got them?


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bono1976
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 19:00
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I didn't spill anything on them, just kept them folded together. They’ve been new printed when I found them.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 19:18
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A council is required to concider any challenge pre notice to owner. they do not have to respond however. A letter now will set up formal reps and appeal. There are many reasons popping up once the NTO is served

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 19:32


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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 19:29
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QUOTE (bono1976 @ Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 18:45) *
Are they will send a Notice to the owner after 14 days from the letter issued?
Just to ask if I send letter to council tomorrow, is that not too late for them to look at it again, because I presume that tomorrow is deadline for penalty to be paid at reduced rate.

Like many locals you take the Council too seriously. They are not going to look properly yet.

The deadline for discount is actually 26th.

But Newham won't back down. Pay or fight.

Just answer simply.

> Were the permits completed in ink ?
> Have the permits been used before ?
> Were they your own permits; part of your free allocation of 30 ?

--
I can't check other pics at mo as their payments page has been down all day. How many were there?



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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bono1976
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 19:55
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Why do you think that deadline is 26.03?
The date of the letter is 09.03.2018.
So notice to owner will be send soon?

They have been completed by ink, never used and yes they were part of 30 free allowance.

I have some downloaded on my work pc (where I am at the moment), but only for one car.
All the pictures from Newham website I have them at home downloaded, because after I’ve went for car wash, original visitor parking permits got lost.
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 21:11
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QUOTE (bono1976 @ Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 19:55) *
Why do you think that deadline is 26.03?

!4 beginning date letter served is what the said.

Service is deemed, in law, to be 2 working days after posting. Sat/Sun are not working days.

But if you are going to worry about the discount then you are wasting your time. No Councils,
especially Newham, ever surrender early on such issues; that's the game; they know most people
pay -- easy money.

You've done nothing wrong so you have a good case. What evidence, at all, do they have that the
permit has been reused?

Did you send them a copy?

I think PMB is suggesting you send them a further challenge -- now, as you thought.
It's unlikely to succeed but it could help for later in the process, as he said.

You are not alone!
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t=0&start=0



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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bono1976
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 07:04
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Good morning,

Is it possible someone to explain to me what is normal procedure from now on if I send them another letter or fax. Are they will send NTO on 26.03 or will respond and give me another 14 days before send NTO?
Should I send them a fax today stating?

"Dear Sirs

Thank you for your letter in response to may challenge to the issuance of PCN number xxxxxxx. I am perplexed as to the reason for your rejection. Please confirm what part of the permit the CEO believes has been altered, in an attempt to re-use this permit."

Is that enough or need to add anything more?

Thanks in advance.
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Neil B
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 09:27
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Have you already sent them a copy of the permit?
If not, do so with this challenge.

QUOTE (bono1976 @ Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 07:04) *
Is it possible someone to explain to me what is normal procedure from now on if I send them another letter or fax. Are they will send NTO on 26.03 or will respond and give me another 14 days before send NTO?

Issue of NtO is not a fixed date. It's anytime after 26th.
They are unlikely to re-offer the discount; they may not even respond.
I've already explained you fight or pay. We won't pressure you either way but if you pay that's game over
and no point us advising further.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 09:27


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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bono1976
post Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 10:36
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Hi Nail B,



I didn't send them a copy of the permit.

I've mentioned earlier that I've lost the original visitor permit after car wash.

What I should do now in this case?



Regards
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 10:09
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I'll repeat what I said earlier---if this is general residents parking then a Code 16 is out of order. According to the CEO handbook which covers London "In shared use bays where residents’ permits are valid, codes 12 and 19 should be used as appropriate".

https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/...vil-enforcement

Where a permit is displayed for that place, valid or not, a lower penalty Code 19 is appropriate.

So the OP has been prejudiced by the wrong contravention being given, a needlessly higher penalty and the Council not complying with its own written procedures.

2160168317 (my bold)

The Appellant said that she was not reminded of the renewal of her permit. The responsibility for renewing a permit falls on the motorist.

The Appellant also said that the white time-plate was not present when the PCN was issued The Authority did not dispute this. It says however that there is a large yellow sign.

The Appellant vehicle has a permit in in. It has expired but it is clear evidence that the Appellant was aware that parking in the bays on the estate requires a permit.

Finally, the Appellant queries why a Code 19 allegation has not been averred. The Authority says that this is a Code used for estate parking and there is nothing wrong with it. Code 19 carries a smaller penalty. When the Authority chooses to aver a contravention with a higher penalty, there needs to be some justification as to why a contravention with a higher penalty is averred. The Authority has not offered any justification.

Upholding the PCN with a higher penalty is unfair. I allow the appeal.


Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 10:10
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