Mobile speed cameras & holding ear, As above |
Mobile speed cameras & holding ear, As above |
Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 17:46
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,560 |
I drove past a speed camera van (under the speed limit by 2mph). I have ear ache and had a tissue to my ear for about 20 seconds because of bleeding etc.
I can categorically state I was not using a mobile and my phone records would confirm this. This was in Scotland, Highland region. Should I be expecting a NIP? (I realise I might be paranoid but I'm not sure how mobile cameras work, what they can enforce, or whether my other half is right saying they will think I was on a phone and do me anyway) |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 17:46
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 17:51
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,506 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
In theory they can witness and report offences other than speeding such as mobile phone usage.
But you seem to suggest you may have been committing a different offence of not being in proper control. I doubt you’ll hear anything, -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:00
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
What type of speed camera?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:17
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,506 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
One in a van
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:28
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,560 |
Yes a camera van, with the camera pointing out the back window. Does holding a tissue to my ear really count as not being in control of the car? How would they differentiate between my tissue and a phone?
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:34
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The offence is not being in a position to be in proper control, holding your hand to your ear may or may not be that offence, it’s unlikey they would take action for that.
If they believed you had a phone to your ear they may well take action, it would be then for you to cast reasonable doubt on that allegation. It’s not for them to differentiate, it’s for them to prove their allegation beyond reasonable doubt, if you have a provable medical history of ear issues (bleeding is a bit more than ear ache) then that should be easy for you to cast that doubt. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves, it’s more likely than not that you’ll hear nothing. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:36
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,560 |
I have a history of ear infections, but haven't been to the doctor for 2-3 months with it.
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:46
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,340 Joined: 18 Apr 2008 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 18,924 |
I have a history of ear infections, but haven't been to the doctor for 2-3 months with it. Your ear is bleeding and you haven't been to a doctor? Perhaps you should go asap. I take it the tissue is white and your phone is black? If it does go to court and you plead not guilty, the video evidence will reveal what you were holding to your ear....simples. Plus, most people don't talk into a tissue This post has been edited by ict_guy: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:48 |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:57
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,560 |
In typical fashion I can't get a gp appointment until Monday, despite having called on Wednesday. And yes the tissue is white.
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 19:54
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Seeing as how you can have white phones and covers I’m not sure the colour of the tissue helps!
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 21:11
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I really wouldn't worry about it, if they prosecuted everybody who's holding their hand up to their face / ear + everyone who *might* be holding a phone but where they don't see a phone (by which I mean they could swear in court that they are 100% sure the defendant was holding a phone, as opposed to just saying the defendant was holding something that looked like a phone), the Scottish courts would deal with nothing other than mobile phone offence trials.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 22:12
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The way you hold a tissue against your ear and the way you hold a phone are very different and will easily show on a zoom camera.
That said, as has been said driving along with your ear bleeding isn't exactly going to make the magistrates think your mind was 100% on the road if they ever did proceed with not in proper control, which is often the alternative if you deny it was a mobile phone. It's the whole lit fag scenario, if you suddenly need both hands are you going to drop everything and have a bloody tissue rolling around whilst blood spurts out your ear like an absolutely low budget horror film? Probably not, it is different to simply resting your ear on your hand. |
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Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 00:30
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
The way you hold a tissue against your ear and the way you hold a phone are very different and will easily show on a zoom camera. That said, as has been said driving along with your ear bleeding isn't exactly going to make the magistrates think your mind was 100% on the road if they ever did proceed with not in proper control, which is often the alternative if you deny it was a mobile phone. It's the whole lit fag scenario, if you suddenly need both hands are you going to drop everything and have a bloody tissue rolling around whilst blood spurts out your ear like an absolutely low budget horror film? Probably not, it is different to simply resting your ear on your hand. Lets not go overboard- you make it sound as if the OPs brain was exiting through his ear. |
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Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 16:23
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Personally I wouldn't want to be saying it in magistrates court, but of course the magistrates may find it perfectly acceptable.
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Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 17:35
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The way you hold a tissue against your ear and the way you hold a phone are very different and will easily show on a zoom camera. That said, as has been said driving along with your ear bleeding isn't exactly going to make the magistrates think your mind was 100% on the road if they ever did proceed with not in proper control, which is often the alternative if you deny it was a mobile phone. It's the whole lit fag scenario, if you suddenly need both hands are you going to drop everything and have a bloody tissue rolling around whilst blood spurts out your ear like an absolutely low budget horror film? Probably not, it is different to simply resting your ear on your hand. Lets not go overboard- you make it sound as if the OPs brain was exiting through his ear. That would have been a far better scenario as you could then raise mental capacity as an issue (While mens rea is irrelevant for most if not all traffic offences, one still needs to have both a brain and mental capacity to be guilty of an offence). However on a serious note I don't see how holding a tissue could, on its own, amount to not being in proper control. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 19:41
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#16
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,560 |
Thank you so much for the replies. Is there a time limit after which I can stop worrying? (Been to GP, got treatment, brain still between ears btw...)
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Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 19:49
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
If you physically possess the logbook/V5C and it has the correct address they must send you a notice within 14 calendar days.
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Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 20:01
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
If you physically possess the logbook/V5C and it has the correct address they must send you a notice within 14 calendar days. For a mobile phone offence? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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