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Hackney PCN code 50l
cc1234
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 22:50
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Just received this today for a prohibited turn at the Mare Street junction with Richmond Road performed at 18:54 on Saturday 9th March 2019


But the photos are virtually impossible to see - the right hand side photo is just totally black.

Details such as time of the offence is impossible to read.

It refers you to look at the recordings online WWW.hackney.gov.uk/parking but it is impossible to locate the link where you can see the recordings.

Please advise if I have any grounds of making a representation.

Grateful for any advice!










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post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 22:50
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Incandescent
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 00:08
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Only worth considering an appeal once you've seen the video. This is the sole evidence of the allegation, and must be submitted by the council if you get to adjudication. Others on here are expert at obtaining and posting the video, so wait a bit to see if they come on here. However, do not miss any deadlines.
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stamfordman
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 09:58
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Many cases here - this was notorious last year when introduced but signage was improved. You were caught just a few mins before the end of the restriction at 7pm.

Best bet is have look at cases on the tribunal site to see if any appeals are being allowed recently. There are a lot of cases that have gone to the adjudicator and continue to do so.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 10:24
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 10:36
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 09:58) *
Many cases here - this was notorious last year when introduced but signage was improved. You were caught just a few mins before the end of the restriction at 7pm.

Best bet is have look at cases on the tribunal site to see if any appeals are being allowed recently. There are a lot of cases that have gone to the adjudicator and continue to do so.


I was looking at Mare st last night re the bus lane. Appeals to the adjudicator are losing at a rate of about 3 to 1


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cc1234
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 16:43
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can some please advise me how to get hold of the recordings by Hackney ....?

the information from the PCN is far from helpful - they just provided a general link

www.hackney.gov.uk/parking

and there is no link to viewing any recordings or still image ....

I am not happy with the two still images on the PCN

I cannot see the time the photo was taken on the left hand side photo

and the right hand side photo is even worse - it is just a black blot ....

Thank you very much for your help.



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stamfordman
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 17:37
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try here - if you get stuck PM me the details

https://hackney.self-serve.co.uk
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cc1234
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 18:04
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Thank you for the link.

I have now downloaded the still images and recording.

I can see the time of the photo taken was 18:54:07 09/03/2019 (only 6 minutes away from the end of the restriction on a Saturday!!)

The second still image shows my car registration number ....

so I am not sure if there is any ground for appeal ...?

any advice will be much appreciated !

Thank you.
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stamfordman
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 18:28
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put the video on youtube and let's see if we can spot anything. I also looked at a few of the appeals and a few are being allowed on signage but seems to be pot luck on which adjudicator.
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cc1234
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 21:17
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Here is the youtube video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeADVsz2OZU...eature=youtu.be

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stamfordman
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 21:34
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Bus came through just before which could well have unsighted at least the sign or signs on the left.
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cp8759
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 23:09
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This is relevant: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-n...il-100k-a-week/

Also see this thread: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1411505


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cc1234
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 00:28
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Yes. the bus was on the left lane (near the pavement) - it could have blocked my sight of the no left turn sign.

Any ground for appeal ?

also isn't there a sign on the right hand side - in the middle of the road ...?




Understood the sign has subsequently improved after many complaints ...

I think my notice is served in time - so no ground of appealing for out of time ....

PCN code is 50l - although the wording is only

50l Performing a prohibited turn - but 50l according to Hackney council - it meant no left turn ....

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cp8759
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 10:34
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QUOTE (cc1234 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 00:28) *
Yes. the bus was on the left lane (near the pavement) - it could have blocked my sight of the no left turn sign.

Any ground for appeal ?

also isn't there a sign on the right hand side - in the middle of the road ...?

I have no idea, if you want to challenge on the signage it's normally best to get your own photos.

QUOTE (cc1234 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 00:28) *
Understood the sign has subsequently improved after many complaints ...

Again, without seeing updated pictures I'm not sure we can comment on adequacy. The bus might be a factor but this alone won't be enough.

QUOTE (cc1234 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 00:28) *
I think my notice is served in time - so no ground of appealing for out of time ....

Agreed.

QUOTE (cc1234 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 00:28) *
PCN code is 50l - although the wording is only

50l Performing a prohibited turn - but 50l according to Hackney council - it meant no left turn ....

Some adjudicators will accept the notice as being sufficiently particularised, others won't. It's still worth throwing in this argument, but you need to lead on the signage.


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hcandersen
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 10:59
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OP, the truth would inform the conviction behind any reps or appeal.

If you were driving, you know whether 'could have' means did or didn't. You also know whether you were aware of the restriction anyway.

In short, you know the truth and whether on this basis you would be relyng on a technical defence. This is not to say that such defences lack merit, far from it. But being clear in your own mind can only help.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 11:00
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cc1234
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:36
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I have to say I was not aware of the restriction of no left turn. I have used this access from Mare street to Richmond roads from time to time for all these years.

If I was following and behind a bus just before turning, I don't think I would see the sign.

I don't know if my taking my own photos will prove anything, unless I can simulate the situation ie following and behind the bus just before turning.

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stamfordman
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:39
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The timed restriction was put in last June as part of a traffic scheme in the area. It generated a huge number of PCNs and a lot of fuss, even making the national papers I think. Most of the early PCNs were cancelled on appeal but Hackney then upgraded the signage. I live near but would find it hard to take pics as I wouldn't be able to turn left to go home at the times I've driving nearby (taking kids to school).

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 16:40
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cc1234
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 18:36
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And also the pics are only useful if they are taken behind a bus - in order to demonstrate the sight of the sign would be obstructed by the bus.
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cp8759
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 19:07
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QUOTE (cc1234 @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 18:36) *
And also the pics are only useful if they are taken behind a bus - in order to demonstrate the sight of the sign would be obstructed by the bus.

Might be worth taking a picture when a bus drives by then, in central London there must be at least one every five minutes on every major road.


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stamfordman
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 19:22
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I would just appeal on the basis you had not been in the area for some time and was concentrating on approaching the left turn while a bus had been close by on the inside, and you did not see any signage (I think there is a sign on an island on the right now and two on the left but you would have been focusing more on the left and onen on the left is known to be awkward). Say you feel this happened having reviewed the council video.

I would add any other points too. May as well chuck in that you also now see it was close to 7 pm on a Saturday. I have no idea why they extended it to Saturday as it came in with a school street scheme further south.

I would also look on the tribunal site for any hints from the allowed appeals.
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cc1234
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 00:13
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Just that Hackney have learned from all the successful appeals and rectified all their previous mistakes - thus reducing the chances of a successful appeals.

Such as improved the signage, adding 50l (instead of just 50), the location is also made clear as mare st (D) junction with Richmond road.

So grounds for appeals in some of the successful cases are no longer valid
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