A bad week... Options

[hyh]

So I seem to have amassed three speeding offences pretty much within the space of a week in early December and need some advice

I do currently have 6 points on my license for using a mobile phone almost 3 years ago. These are due to come off some time in May. Other than that I have not have any penalties in a very long time.

Firstly I have a conditional offer, with letter dated 07/01/2020, of £100 fine and 3 points. This was for being pulled over on 11/12/2019 after allegedly being clocked at 80mph by the officer who was using a speedgun. This was on a rural dual carriageway with a 70mph limit but I was driving a van so the limit for me would have been 60mph. I am aware that while there isn't any evidence beyond the equipment and the officer's word that it was my vehicle that recorded this speed and that the device was used correctly, the trained officer's word would carry a lot of weight in court. I also understand that while there could be the risk of a higher fine in court, the points would be more damaging as losing my license would result in loss of my driving job too. Also, delaying prosecution until after my current points are lifted in May would make a huge difference.

Secondly, I have two notices of intended prosecution. The date of the first letter is 13/01/2020, the offence being 04/12/2019 with a speed camera clicking me at 35mph in a 30mph zone. I don't have the second letter with me but the date in later, I think the offence was 12/12/2020 with a speed camera clicking 39mph in a 30mph zone. I am aware that both were not received within 14 days but this was a leased van and from reading the information on the second page, provided the last known registered keeper (hire company) received the NIPs within 14 days then they would stand.

Ultimately I would be prepared to pay any costs to avoid losing my license at this point. As it stands my points could increase to 9 but that is without the two NIPs.

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[Irksome]

Bad news indeed, it looks like you can't avoid totting up. You don't say if you've done a speed awareness course, but even if you haven't that will only get rid of one of the offences and your best case scenario still sees you on 12 points.

You need to investigate whether you have the makings of an exceptional hardship arguement to keep your licence ...

[hyh]

I have never done a speed awareness course.

How soon would court dates be? Is there any chance that they would not be until May or later? Also would the points be applied retrospectively at the date of offences?

[southpaw82]

Also, delaying prosecution until after my current points are lifted in May would make a huge difference.

No it won’t, as it’s the date of offence that’s relevant, not the date you appear in court.

[The Rookie]

As above, spinning it out until May is of no benefit.

I also wouldn't take an awareness course but keep that powder dry. Accept one FP and have the last two cases heard in one hearing, so points are awarded at the same time and prepare an exceptional hardship plea.

Worth reading this....
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1544853

[hyh]

So really my only hope is an exceptional hardship argument in court?

As there are 3 offences will this definitely mean 3 separate potential court hearings? They cannot be combined, as it were?

With regard to an exceptional hardship argument, would this mean going to court AND pleading guilty? And am I best to hire a solicitor?

[The Rookie]

So really my only hope is an exceptional hardship argument in court?

As there are 3 offences will this definitely mean 3 separate potential court hearings? They cannot be combined, as it were?

With regard to an exceptional hardship argument, would this mean going to court AND pleading guilty? And am I best to hire a solicitor?

1/ Yes
2/ No, you can accept one FP and have the other two heard at a single hearing, easier if they are in the same county.
3/ Yes you would have to go to court to present your case, we can help with the preparation. If you can present your case reasonably well there is no need to spend out (circa £300) on a solicitor and you'd almost certainly be better off doing it yourself.

[hyh]

Thank you.

I'm more than happy to hire a solicitor - I can't afford it as such, I only just earn enough to scrape by, but I can borrow money relatively easily. Let's just say fines and solicitor/court fees are not an issue because it's a one off and I can deal with that. Loss of regular income would be a completely different matter. However I did read presenting your own case well can actually be better than using a solicitor.

At this point though I don't know where to begin with preparing a case, I.e. how to word anything, relevant information, etc.

So, moving forward I should accept the conditional offer FP I've already received, and provide my driver details for the two NIPs?

[The Rookie]

Definitely provide drivers details for the other two or you commit a more serious offence.

As for the FP, its easier to have cases heard together if they are in the same county so if the second two match that then you may as well accept the first.

It will take about 6-8 months to get to court, plenty of time to prepare, the solicitor can only present the same facts you could.

You need to detail what would happen if you couldn't drive, if you think you would lose your job a letter from your employer saying so, plus look at the hardship that would result, both to you and more importantly to others.

Losing your job is not, of itself, exceptional hardship. - Did you look at the thread linked to?

[hyh]

Background information that may or may not be relevant, or help/hindrance.

- Guaranteed loss of job/income as I am a self-employed delivery courier but working through one of Amazon's delivery service partners.

- I essentially earn less than minimum wage for the hours I work in a month, once the vehicle lease and other costs are deducted, such as discrepancy in the fuel payment we receive compared to actual costs and using your own phone as a delivery device. I have no savings to see me through.

- High pressure job, delivering up to or over 200 parcels a day in December, with 9 hour routes which can sometimes end up taking up to 12 hours but we receive no additional payment for the extra hours.

- Have had great difficulty finding and keeping work, which has been made harder by severe mental health problems pushing me towards suicide through a lot of 2019. I now I have a job that I am enjoying a lot, even if I don't enjoy the poor level of pay.

- I have 3 cats to care for, one has medical issues which cause additional costs, and although they might not be seen as such by law to me they are family, and are also beneficial to my mental health. I don't have children or family that would be affected, except my dad as for me to be in such a bad position again would certainly cause him a lot of pain and he has lost both my mum and a daughter in recent years.

- Divorce/break up with my long term partner of 12+ years in 2019, causing additional stress and difficulties in 2019.

All three offences were in Norfolk, in or near Norwich.

Yes I did have a read of the link, thank you.

This post has been edited by hyh: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 12:33

[NewJudge]

One thing that strikes me (and which may occur to a court) is that, from what you have said, you may be better off seeking other (non-driving) employment anyway. You are working for less than minimum wage, obviously in a very stressful job and these latest episodes of speeding suggest that you are perhaps driving a little irresponsibly (or at least with a certain lack of attention) in order to meet unrealistic targets. Three offences in the space of a week or so seems to demonstrate this. It depends how your argument comes across but the court may well feel that, far from causing you hardship, an enforced rest from driving may well do you good!

You should think very carefully about how you are going to play this. I think you should steer away from an explanation of being under pressure at work and similarly with the stress of the breakup/divorce. That is to do with why the offences might have been committed and not an explanation of the hardship you will endure if banned. You need to be able to show that genuine hardship - over and above that to be experienced by anybody who is banned - will follow. From what you have said so far your argument so far does not seem too strong. Will you lose your accommodation if you are banned?

BTW I would not consider borrowing large sums of money to pay for a solicitor. Remember loans have to be repaid and with your parlous financial state (together with no guarantee of success anyway) you'd do better to represent yourself. If you are not confident to speak in court you can write your argument down and ask the court to read it.

[hyh]

I guess I think a solicitor would have more experience to know what information would have a greater influence on the court's decision, and how to present it. I can certainly present the information myself once it's there in writing, but I'm not good at writing a story (as it were) in the first place. I just ramble or go on tangents or give too much or too little detail or have mental blocks, etc.

[NewJudge]

You will get some help on here with that once you've decided on what you propose to concentrate on.

[hyh]

One thing that strikes me (and which may occur to a court) is that, from what you have said, you may be better off seeking other (non-driving) employment anyway. You are working for less than minimum wage, obviously in a very stressful job and these latest episodes of speeding suggest that you are perhaps driving a little irresponsibly (or at least with a certain lack of attention) in order to meet unrealistic targets. Three offences in the space of a week or so seems to demonstrate this. It depends how your argument comes across but the court may well feel that, far from causing you hardship, an enforced rest from driving may well do you good!

You should think very carefully about how you are going to play this. I think you should steer away from an explanation of being under pressure at work and similarly with the stress of the breakup/divorce. That is to do with why the offences might have been committed and not an explanation of the hardship you will endure if banned. You need to be able to show that genuine hardship - over and above that to be experienced by anybody who is banned - will follow. From what you have said so far your argument so far does not seem too strong. Will you lose your accommodation if you are banned?

BTW I would not consider borrowing large sums of money to pay for a solicitor. Remember loans have to be repaid and with your parlous financial state (together with no guarantee of success anyway) you'd do better to represent yourself. If you are not confident to speak in court you can write your argument down and ask the court to read it.

Kinda feels hopeless now lol all I can say is my mental and physical health has drastically improved since I started this job. Most jobs I've started in the past have been at least difficult to adjust, and at worst had a serious negative impact on my mental health. This job is well suited to my nature because I need the constant mental stimulation, physical activity, and fast-paced nature of it to thrive, and I work better on my own. I also love driving and is one of the few joys I have in life.

Regarding money, no I wouldn't take loans I can borrow from my dad and pay it back as and when.

This post has been edited by hyh: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 14:23

[hyh]

...I suppose I need to give my brain time to work out my case. As has been said, the focus should be on what will happen if I lose my license (not the circumstances around the times of offence). Loss of license is what I want to avoid and what would cause me to suffer greatly.

[Irksome]

You don’t seem to have the basis of an exceptional hardship argument, so I suggest your efforts would be most wisely spent planning your future without a driving license for 6 months.

[hyh]

So what would be "exceptional hardship" in a court's eyes?

[nosferatu1001]

Usually, impact on others.
Have you done an obvious search on the term, to see others arguments?

[southpaw82]

So what would be "exceptional hardship" in a court's eyes?

It is difficult to give an all-encompassing answer, as each case will turn on its own facts.

[hyh]

Usually, impact on others.
Have you done an obvious search on the term, to see others arguments?

Not yet, no.

I'm not surprised because of society's attitudes and ignorance but this seems wrong to me. People who have others it may impact on the other hand generally also have others who can help and support them, and have more than just work in their life to give them some purpose. People who are completely alone and isolated wiith no family or friends can often suffer much harder and may already be struggling with life without the additional punishment. *shrug*

This post has been edited by hyh: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 - 19:19