2 x PCN 24p - Edinburgh Options

[mjmac71]

Hi all,

Hoping someone may have some knowledge of this topic.

Background - since COVID times, residential parking has been difficult in Edinburgh due to so many working from home. The council issued a notice saying people with residential parking permits may use the pay and display bays until further notice. I have a residential parking permit for my area and have parked in Pay and Display many times.

I received a PCN for parking on a line that separates a residential parking area with a pay and display parking area (see pic). The parking is parallel to the curb (not perpendicular) and so no other bay markings except the one between the residential and pay and display bays.

Knowing that my entire street is temporarily allocated to residential (including P&D bay) I just came home one dark Sunday evening and parked where there was a gap. I didn't even notice the line on the pavement (white - double), nor did I think I could be doing anything wrong.

On the Wednesday, I was going to pick up the kids and noticed 2 x PCN 24p. The second one was issue 23 hrs and 50mins after the first one.

The parking attendant decided I was doing something illegal. Although I was entitled to park on either side of that line, and not parked in front or a driveway, bin, car club, disabled etc

My questions, if anyone can confirm:

1) Are parking regs the same in Scotland? I have read on the forums that in England 2 x PCN for same offence is contestable, but unsure if it applies in Scotland. Would I be able to contest 2nd PCN since it was issued for same offense within 24 hours of 1st PCN?

2) Could I argue that for the purposes of the temporary parking arrangement stated by the council, that the white line between the P&D and the residential bay therefore has no meaning, and contest the PCN?

GSV
https://goo.gl/maps/NVXjo9bEee4f1f3a6

This post has been edited by mjmac71: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 - 20:29

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

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[Gerfc1]

Post up the photos of the location including signs. Post up the PCN.


Give the link of the GSV. And also post the letter from Council giving the notice.

Use external site to upload images. Do not reveal your name, address and vehicle registration. Leave the dates visible

[Gerfc1]

1) Are parking regs the same in Scotland? I have read on the forums that in England 2 x PCN for same offence is contestable, but unsure if it applies in Scotland. Would I be able to contest 2nd PCN since it was issued for same offense within 24 hours of 1st PCN?

You will get 2nd PCN cancelled.

2) Could I argue that for the purposes of the temporary parking arrangement stated by the council, that the white line between the P&D and the residential bay therefore has no meaning, and contest the PCN?

Looing on GSV the separate line between the bay is to show different regulations - which is clear.

The contravention was because the vehicle was not within the parking bay (inside white lines).

I have a look on GSV and I can see many cars are parking outside the white lines, the parking bays look so tiny.

Do you park there easily or it is a tight space if your car is big?

[mjmac71]

Thanks for your answer to Q1.

Regarding the bay size - they are normal width and easily allow a car to park parallel to kerb, inside the white line.

In my case, if it wasn't clear, is that I was parked across the double line (between to P&D and Residential areas). I was within the line parallel to kerb.

[cp8759]

The principle of double jeopardy applies in Scotland too as far as I know, so the 2nd PCN should get cancelled without too much difficulty. As for the first one, it seems incredibly harsh but you have no obvious defence, so discretion would be the way to go IMO.

Post up the council photos so we can see what we're dealing with. Use an external site like imgur.com as there won't be space on here.

[Gerfc1]

Ah, over different bays

You have mentioned there is a letter from the Council saying that you can use P&D bays. Can you put it here.

[mjmac71]

here are the council pics.

https://imgur.com/a/RFEVaLF

also here is the wording from the council re residents parking in P&D bays

Parking Dispensation

I write with regard to the current Covid-19 situation and government advice asking some people to work from home.

All residents who have received this email and who hold a valid Residents’ Parking Permit will be granted dispensation to park their vehicles in pay and display parking places located within their own Zone (provided those bays are not subject to a suspension) until further notice.

A valid Residents’ Permit must be displayed to take advantage of this dispensation.

Please ensure you continue to park correctly, keeping yellow lines clear for emergency service vehicles and to allow for the delivery of essential supplies, to shops and to help other residents to receive deliveries to their homes.

Having been under the conditions stated above from the council since March 2020, I have just parked anywhere on my street. I didnt even realise i was parking across the boundary of P&D and the residential as I have permission to park in both.

This post has been edited by mjmac71: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 21:02

[cp8759]

For the first PCN all you have to go on is discretion. It's a decent case of mitigation as the bay divider (and hence the PCN) serves no traffic management purpose at the moment. However I wouldn't be surprised if Edinburgh enforced it anyway.

[Gerfc1]

IMO, I think it is that you have parked over the white line rather than going over P&D bay/resident bay.

I think you have 50/50 chance at this.

You can make represenation that you were not sure why you got PCN, is it because you were over the white bay obstructing the road OR going over the P&D bay. And you got the letter from the Council saying you can use the P&D bays in your Zone.

The Council may reoffer the discount if your appeal is rejected. It is up to you if you want to pay the discount or challenge it.

You will have no problem getting your second PCN cancelled as continous contravention

[hcandersen]

An insignificant part of your front wheel only was parked beyond the longitudinal markings. Sorry, but I think this is a red herring.

The council issued a notice saying people with residential parking permits may use the pay and display bays until further notice.


Pl post this.

We had a case a few months ago where the relaxation in phase 1 of lockdown had been terminated and for all I know your case is similar i.e. you can no longer park in a P&D bay with a res permit.

If not, then it is petty in the extreme to penalise you for what you did which in principle is no different to parking across internal bay dividers i.e. you are permitted to park either side.

[mjmac71]

Full text from council. Also note the P&D bays are still being legally used by residential permit holders. I use them most days.

Dear Resident

Parking Dispensation

I wrote to you in March regarding the introduction of a residents’ permit holders dispensation allowing you to park in pay and display bays within your zone. I’m pleased to inform you that this dispensation will continue for permit holders until further notice.

As you may know, in response to the global Covid-19 pandemic and the government’s advice for people to work from home, pay and display parking charges were suspended in Edinburgh on Tuesday 24 March 2020.

I’m writing to inform you that, due to increasing traffic volumes and a higher demand for parking, pay and display parking charges will be re-instated on Monday 22 June 2020. From this date, any vehicle without a valid permit or parking incorrectly in a; public, shared-use or residents’ parking place may be issued with a parking ticket.

In order to ensure your vehicle is parked correctly and to take advantage of the dispensation, you must hold a valid Residents’ Parking Permit.

I understand that some residents’ parking permits have expired during the lockdown restrictions. To continue to park correctly on street and avoid receiving a parking ticket, you should access your online permit account and apply for a new Residents’ Parking Permit. Unfortunately, you will be unable to renew an expired permit. Please use your existing account and do not create a new one to avoid possible delays to your application being approved.

I regret that currently we are unable to offer the following permit types for sale as our staff are unable to access Council offices, to support social distancing requirements:
Visitor parking permits
Daily parking permits
Merged parking permits.
The inability to print and post permits will also mean that electronic permits will be used in place of paper permits for the time being. Parking Attendants will identify permit holders by searching for a vehicle’s registration mark on their hand-held computers.

Please remember to check on your vehicle regularly as bay suspensions are still being introduced across the city, for instance to support road works. This means that there may be occasions when you need to move your vehicle from the bay in which it is parked. Suspensions are indicated by yellow signs adjacent to the affected bays that give details of the dates and times of any suspension. In addition, no waiting cones will be placed in the bays.

Finally, thank you for continuing to park correctly, keeping yellow lines clear for emergency service vehicles, allowing deliveries of essential supplies to make it to your local shops and for helping your neighbours receive shopping deliveries to their homes.

If you have any queries regarding this e-mail please visit our website at www.edinburgh.gov.uk/parking

Yours faithfully

xxx yyyyy
Parking Contract Manager

[cp8759]

I suggest a please for discretion is all you've got. Post a draft on here before sending anything.

[mjmac71]

This is my suggested wording for the appeal. Any comments greatly received.

To whom it may concern

I wish to contest a PCN 24p from 17th November 2020.

PCN number: ED34720099

In March 2020, I received a parking dispensation due to COVID-19, allowing resident with valid permits to park vehicles in pay and display parking places until further notice. This dispensation still applies today.
Since that communication, I and my neighbours have parked our vehicles in any vacant bay available in the street.

On 17th November I have apparently parked in a position that overlaps both the residential parking bays, and the ‘Pay and Display’ parking bays. For that I have been issued a parking contravention.

I wish to bring this contravention into context, given the unusual situation of COVID-19, and the chronic lack of resident parking in my area. Whilst parking across a line delineating the separate bays, for all intents and purposes, they serve no traffic management purpose.

Given the above information, and the evidence available, I wish to request discretion under the parking dispensation. My vehicle did not obstruct access for other vehicles in any way, nor any disabled or car club bays or refuse bins.

Please review the information and find that I was simply parking in my street across two sections where I was legally entitled to park in both.

I look forward to a favourable response.

[mjmac71]

Update on this case.

On Saturday evening I received an email response to my appeal to the 2nd PCN (for being issued within 24 hours of the 1st one).

It seems that I had a 3rd PCN issued before the others; It must have blown off the windscreen!

However the council decided to cancel all 3 x PCNs that were for the same contravention. I suspect that they recognised this was a trifling offense and decided not to bother upholding them all. Result! See letter below.

Thanks to those who provided input.

My final words: Overall the quality and courtesy of vehicle owners parking in Edinburgh is appalling. That same space was free when I came home last night. The only space within 400m of my house. People never seem to park up to the line. Even in other parallel bays people will often leave just under a car length in front and behind, effectively wasting space and preventing other cars from using the space. One evening I went out for 5 minutes. As I was leaving, I noticed the lady in front of me starting her engine. When I returned I found she had just reversed slightly to take up the space of two cars deliberately. Inconsiderate in the extreme.


Thank you for your correspondence received on 19/11/2020.
The parking tickets were issued because the vehicle was not parked correctly within the bay.
Please see the photographs below.

When a vehicle is parked in a parking bay every part of that vehicle must be contained within
the bay.
Although your permit allows you to park in a permit and public/shared parking bay within your
zone, you can only park on one of these areas at any one time.
We would confirm that multiple parking tickets can be issued to a vehicle within a 24 hour

period. However, the parking tickets will be withdrawn and cancelled on this occasion. Any
future parking tickets issued for the same reason will not be given the same consideration.
Yours sincerely
xxx yyy
For Parking Services Manager