PCN 50R - Western Rd- Performed 2-Point Turn - No Right Turn Options

[5ilver]

Hi
I received a 50r PCN for doing a 2-Point Turn in Western Rd, Romford where "no Right-turn" is prohibited. I had no intention to enter the prohibited loading area but did the 2-Point turn to correct my travelling direction.
Unfortunately I missed the No Right Turn while concentrating on left to find a safe spot to do the u turn (not sure if it could be called u turn).
According to following website https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/request/h...harge_notices_6 1,654 PCNs were issued in the year 2019. I believe there is no camera enforcement sign to warn the drivers.
I hope the forum members will be able to help on this difficult situation.
Kindly review the below pictures and the council video.





screen shot of the video where the vehicle is at max point on the prohibited no right turn street

Please click here for the YouTube video link which is downloaded from the council website

location on google maps https://www.google.com/maps/@51.578736,0.18...6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by 5ilver: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 - 20:37

[Advertisement]

[PASTMYBEST]

Kindly review\amend the below draft of the initial representation to the council. Thanks
"I believe the alleged contravention is incorrect.
The signage to inform the road user of the no right turn was inadequate. The one and only sign set on the opposite side of the road is set back meaning it could be unclear what turning is restricted with an additional turn into the Conservative Association.

Secondly, I didn't turn right into the loading area of the service road but did a two-point turn to change direction."

No you have read the post wher i gave you an appeal i wrote for this location on the one ground Of the TMO specifying a turn into the loading bay. You need to get a bit nearer to that

[5ilver]

Kindly review\amend the below draft of the initial representation to the council. Thanks
"I believe the alleged contravention is incorrect.
The signage to inform the road user of the no right turn was inadequate. The one and only sign set on the opposite side of the road is set back meaning it could be unclear what turning is restricted with an additional turn into the Conservative Association.

Secondly, I didn't turn right into the loading area of the service road but did a two-point turn to change direction."

No you have read the post wher i gave you an appeal i wrote for this location on the one ground Of the TMO specifying a turn into the loading bay. You need to get a bit nearer to that

Sorry PMB that I missed the part you suggested in your earlier post, probably I got overwhelmed by lot on new information in the other cases.
I will attempt another draft by adding your statements. Hope below draft is better better than the first one. Thank you again for your much needed help.

"I believe the alleged contravention is incorrect.
The TMO for this location states in the schedule at item 18 that the restriction is no right turn into the loading area. The loading area as can be seen from the Google Street View is a gated area off the service road.
I did not enter the loading area at all and so could not have committed the contravention alleged at all.
Furthermore the signage to inform the road user of the no right turn was inadequate. The one and only sign set on the opposite side of the road is set back meaning it could be unclear what turning is restricted with an additional turn into the Conservative Association."

[PASTMYBEST]

bump and remind me on Sunday and i will draft something for you.

[5ilver]

bump and remind me on Sunday and i will draft something for you.

I think today is the last day of the 14 days period to submit the appeal. I am sorry that I have left it to the last minute.
Please is the draft too bad, wonder if I can send the draft today as it is. Sorry again to trouble you. Thanks

[PASTMYBEST]

bump and remind me on Sunday and i will draft something for you.

I think today is the last day of the 14 days period to submit the appeal. I am sorry that I have left it to the last minute.
Please is the draft too bad, wonder if I can send the draft today as it is. Sorry again to trouble you. Thanks

if you are making representations then that does not matter because the council will reject and you would need to go to tribunal to win so do you want to take the double or quits gamble.

I would but it's your money

[5ilver]

bump and remind me on Sunday and i will draft something for you.

I think today is the last day of the 14 days period to submit the appeal. I am sorry that I have left it to the last minute.
Please is the draft too bad, wonder if I can send the draft today as it is. Sorry again to trouble you. Thanks

if you are making representations then that does not matter because the council will reject and you would need to go to tribunal to win so do you want to take the double or quits gamble.

I would but it's your money

I will gamble and hopefully with forum members help will put up a good fight. I will submit the appeal today which is likely to be refused as you said. Thank you.

[PASTMYBEST]

post up the rejection when you get it

[5ilver]

post up the rejection when you get it

sure I will post it once the expected result is received. Thanks

[5ilver]

post up the rejection when you get it

sure I will post it once the expected result is received. Thanks.

Hi PMB and other forum members, hope everyone has been keeping well.
I received the expected rejection letter today. Kindly review below the letter pages. Thank you for your help & support.






This post has been edited by 5ilver: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 - 19:19

[Incandescent]

OK, so they have re-offered the discount, so it is decision time - cough-up or go for the double-or-quits gamble of adjudication.

[cp8759]

I would fight, the council has a propensity to adduce an out-of-date traffic order in the evidence that refers to a "loading area", see Nicholas Perry v London Borough of Havering and Daniel Lucchesi v London Borough of Havering

[5ilver]

OK, so they have re-offered the discount, so it is decision time - cough-up or go for the double-or-quits gamble of adjudication.

I will risk the double, hopefully there will be a positive result from the adjudicator.

[PASTMYBEST]

I would fight, the council has a propensity to adduce an out-of-date traffic order in the evidence that refers to a "loading area", see Nicholas Perry v London Borough of Havering and Daniel Lucchesi v London Borough of Havering

I too because there is a high court case re U turns that says you must leave the carriageway and you did not go beyond the property line so did not

[cp8759]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

[5ilver]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

Thank you cp8759 & PMB for getting back and for the next step to take. I will register the appeal as you suggested. Hopefully I will be in the lucky 40%. Cheers

This post has been edited by 5ilver: Thu, 8 Oct 2020 - 21:02

[PASTMYBEST]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

Thank you cp8759 & PMB for getting back and for the next step to take. I will register the appeal as you suggested. Hopefully I will be in the lucky 40%. Cheers

have you had a response from the tribunal ?

[5ilver]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

Thank you cp8759 & PMB for getting back and for the next step to take. I will register the appeal as you suggested. Hopefully I will be in the lucky 40%. Cheers

have you had a response from the tribunal ?

Hi PMB
Thank you for keeping track of my case. No, I haven't received any reply yet from the tribunal. I will report back ASAP once I have the response. Thank you.

[PASTMYBEST]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

Thank you cp8759 & PMB for getting back and for the next step to take. I will register the appeal as you suggested. Hopefully I will be in the lucky 40%. Cheers

have you had a response from the tribunal ?

Hi PMB
Thank you for keeping track of my case. No, I haven't received any reply yet from the tribunal. I will report back ASAP once I have the response. Thank you.

check the portal and if there is nothing there phone them this delay is unusual so best check

[5ilver]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

Thank you cp8759 & PMB for getting back and for the next step to take. I will register the appeal as you suggested. Hopefully I will be in the lucky 40%. Cheers

have you had a response from the tribunal ?

Hi PMB
Thank you for keeping track of my case. No, I haven't received any reply yet from the tribunal. I will report back ASAP once I have the response. Thank you.

check the portal and if there is nothing there phone them this delay is unusual so best check

Thank you PMB!

[5ilver]

So register the appeal and just put "full grounds to follow in due course", some 40% or so of appeals don't get contested so you might not need to do anything further. If the council does contest, one of us will write the appeal for you.

Thank you cp8759 & PMB for getting back and for the next step to take. I will register the appeal as you suggested. Hopefully I will be in the lucky 40%. Cheers

have you had a response from the tribunal ?

Hi PMB
Thank you for keeping track of my case. No, I haven't received any reply yet from the tribunal. I will report back ASAP once I have the response. Thank you.

check the portal and if there is nothing there phone them this delay is unusual so best check

Thank you PMB!

Hi, I received the response from londontribunals, the hearing date is 12 November 2020. I checked the londontribunals portal, there is no evidence yet uploaded by the Havering council. Thank you.

This post has been edited by 5ilver: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 - 17:55