[NIP Wizard] 48mph in a 30mph zone |
[NIP Wizard] 48mph in a 30mph zone |
Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 16:49
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - August 2019 Date of the NIP: - 18 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 21 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Location description is accurate Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I lease the vehicle from a third party. The NIP was received by the RK within 14 days How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - No complaints about the NIP in hindsight. I thought the limit was 40mph, which of course would still have netted me a NIP. But it was 8.48pm in the evening, and it was a van that got me. Never seen one there before at that time. Hey ho. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 09 Sep 2019 16:49:28 +0000 -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 16:49
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Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 17:11
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
I'm not sure how many folk are on here from days of yore, but here's a name from the dim-and-distant past come back to seek help... Yes, despite my best efforts of driving sensibly and carefully I find myself (after many years) in need of some assistance, as I'm well out of the loop.
Here's the deal... 48mph in a 30mph zone. I thought it was a 40mph zone, and have been pinged at a higher speed than I thought. No matter, it's done now. I lease the car from a third party, who received it in good time. They nominated me as per s.172 and I received mine today. The notice has the location, which is accurate, as is the date and the time. I'm of a mind to go down the road of filling in the s.172 without signing it. Now, I know that's not been possible/advisable in England for some years, but back in my day it was the weapon of choice. Does anyone know if this advice still holds? Are there any recent cases anyone can point me towards? What's 48mph in a 30mph zone likely to attract in Scotland? Fixed penalty, or can I expect to need to buy shoe polish and iron my shirt for a visit in front of their honours? Thanks guys. *EDIT* Sorry, this is Scotland, not England. My original NIP Wizard post went to another forum and now I can't move it. This post has been edited by firefly: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 17:21 -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 19:26
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#3
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,220 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
Hello stranger. How's the leg?
AFAIK unsigned in Scotland still entails months of bluff and bluster and being dragged to court by the PF (for as many diets as they can blag) before finally dropping the case at the start of the actual trial if you maintain your NG plea. The old advice was to avoid the polis during the period so that they can't verbally s. 172 you. However, case law (Scottish) tells us that there is only a single lawful s. 172 requirement, and any 'reminders' are merely a further opportunity to comply but are not lawful requirements in their own right. The case in question concerned proceedings started outwith the 6 months from the expiration of the original 28 days, but within 6 months of the expiration of one of the reminders. edit: AFAIK (again) ACPOS apply the ACPO guidelines (albeit that ACPO no longer exist, and I dunno about ACPOS) This post has been edited by andy_foster: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 19:29 -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 21:01
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
Hello stranger. How's the leg? It doesn't bother me any more at all, cheers Andy! Good to know the old guard are still manning the gates. AFAIK unsigned in Scotland still entails months of bluff and bluster and being dragged to court by the PF (for as many diets as they can blag) before finally dropping the case at the start of the actual trial if you maintain your NG plea. Interesting that this advice still holds. That's exactly what happened to me up in Tain. I attended court and the Fiscal didn't offer any evidence, dropping the case on the day of trial. I suspect nobody had looked at the case until the morning it was to be heard. The old advice was to avoid the polis during the period so that they can't verbally s. 172 you. I'm away quite a lot with work these days, so hopefully that shouldn't be too difficult. I'll hang fire until near the end of my 28 day window and then reply. Thanks again. -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 21:59
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,581 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
QUOTE What's 48mph in a 30mph zone likely to attract in Scotland? Fixed penalty, or can I expect to need to buy shoe polish and iron my shirt for a visit in front of their honours? Certainly FP territory in E&W, probably also in Scotland -------------------- |
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Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 05:55
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,263 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Wellcome back!
As Log’ says a fixed penalty would almost certainly be offered if the driver was named. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 7 Oct 2019 - 10:05
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
Hello, poops.
Update. I returned the s172 request on day 26, using recorded delivery. Two days later (!) I get a reply from the camera office stating the following: 'I am in receipt of a driver identification form for which I thank you. I note however that you have failed to sign it. Please complete the form overleaf ensuring that you sign it. Thereafter return the form to this office by return of post. Yours faithfully (indiscernible scribble) On behalf of the Chief Constable' My intention is to ignore any further correspondence and wait to see what happens. Any thoughts by better-versed posters on here would be most welcome. This post has been edited by firefly: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 - 10:08 -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 7 Oct 2019 - 10:41
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,263 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
100% predictable response.
I usually suggest resubmitting it close to the end of the period given, still unsigned, in the hope it delays further action for a few days while they get around to processing it. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 18:10
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
I usually suggest resubmitting it close to the end of the period given, still unsigned, in the hope it delays further action for a few days while they get around to processing it. I'm inclined to not bother and just leave it to run its inevitable course. They've already admitted to being in receipt of a 'driver identification form', so other than potentially delay things by a few days I don't see what can be gained by resubmitting? -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 09:40
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
I received this morning what is almost certainly an automatic reminder from the police, given that my initial 28 day deadline has passed. The wording of the reminder is interesting.
'As indicated in my earlier correspondence you were required to provide the information, as per the form provided, within the statutory time limit of 28 days. I have to inform you that this period has now elapsed and to date no response has been received within this office. I have provided a duplicate form overleaf for your use should you require it and would ask that you now give this matter your IMMEDIATE attention. You are also required to sign your completed form and return it to the address stated above. If you do not respond, Police Officers will call to interview you after which you may be reported for consideration of prosecution under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. Chief Constable Iain Livingstone QPM Police Service of Scotland' '...to date no response has been received...' -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 09:44
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I infer “no acceptable [to them] response”. I’m no expert on Scots law but isn’t up to you whether you want to be interviewed, if you’re not under arrest?
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 10:00
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
I infer “no acceptable [to them] response”. I’m no expert on Scots law but isn’t up to you whether you want to be interviewed, if you’re not under arrest? And, yet, in the previous letter they said 'I am in receipt of a driver identification form for which I thank you'. I'm planning on keeping that up my sleeve, even though I don't think it'll be decisive if it does get to court. It is my understanding that if a police officer turns up at your door to do a S172 request then there's very little you can do about it. 'I have given all the information required by S172 of the Road Traffic Act and I have nothing more to say' is a potential reply, but I'm not sure this would cut it. I've been out of the loop for so long that I'd need to do some homework on it. Where's jeffreyarcher when you need him?! -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 11:59
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
AFAIK, there is only one s 172 request - you can’t be successfully prosecuted for failing to respond to a reiteration of that request made verbally.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 13:40
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Personally I wouldn't engage with the police at all, it seems like a complete waste of time to me. If two Police Scotland officers turned up my only reaction would be to turn the volume up a bit on Netflix until they get bored and leave.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 14 Nov 2019 - 16:56
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
Update. Our friends from Police Scotland have been to my door and dropped a ‘while you were out’ calling card, asking me to contact a local Glasgow branch for ‘incomplete paperwork’ to be filled in. There’s no requirement for me to do such a thing, of course. I’m minded to ignore this tempting offer and let nature take its course. Any recent cases in Scotland where this has happened?
-------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Thu, 14 Nov 2019 - 17:00
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#16
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Update. Our friends from Police Scotland have been to my door and dropped a ‘while you were out’ calling card Aw, bless. Perhaps they'll leave a Christmas card next time. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Thu, 14 Nov 2019 - 17:02
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 3 Sep 2003 From: ex-Scotland Member No.: 298 |
Update. Our friends from Police Scotland have been to my door and dropped a ‘while you were out’ calling card Aw, bless. Perhaps they'll leave a Christmas card next time. One lives in hope. -------------------- Regards,
ff Benefitted from PePiPoo? Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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