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PCN charge certificate for own & wrong vehicle, Manchester City Council
mcmoo
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:08
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Hello, I'm new to this forum. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

I've been issued two charge certificates from Manchester City Council, for allegedly driving in a bus lane back in May 2018.

Reading the charge certificates, I understand these to be follow up to PCN's which I never received.

One of them references my company car, so the charge certificate is addressed to 'The Secretary' of my ltd company.

The other references a car which has nothing to do with me or my company, but is also addressed to the company. I have the only company car.

Any advice on how I should proceed with challenging the incorrectly issued one?

Also, should I do anything to challenge the one issued to my car? I don't recall seeing adequate signage, but this happened over six months ago.



This post has been edited by mcmoo: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:11
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post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:08
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peterguk
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:30
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QUOTE (mcmoo @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:08) *
The other references a car which has nothing to do with me or my company, but is also addressed to the company.


Has the VRN EVER been connected to your or your company?


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mcmoo
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:33
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Nope, the car I have at the moment is the only one.
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cp8759
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:33
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There's a process to reset the case in these circumstances, basically you have to wait for the next document, called the Order for Recovery. You can challenge that on the basis that you never received the original PCN. Providing you meet the deadlines, it's a tick-box exercise, see the explanation here: https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/w...ess-statements/ under "statutory declaration"

When the Order for Recover arrived, post it on here and you'll be advised on how to proceed.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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mcmoo
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:48
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Thanks for the advice, I'll wait for the Order for Recovery and post it here.

Should I do the same for the incorrect VRN?
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cp8759
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:49
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QUOTE (mcmoo @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:48) *
Should I do the same for the incorrect VRN?

Yes, once the PCN is reset, you'll have the opportunity to challenge it on the basis that you've never been the owner of that vehicle.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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mcmoo
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:57
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Ok, thanks very much for your help.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:00
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You need to monitor the situation with the traffic enforcement centre (TEC) to ensure you don't miss the order for recoveries - as you'd didn't get PCNs especially.

is the address completely right on both?
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mcmoo
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:07
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QUOTE
You need to monitor the situation with the traffic enforcement centre (TEC) to ensure you don't miss the order for recoveries - as you'd didn't get PCNs especially.

That's a good point, as I'm concerned missing that could result in enforcement action. How do I go about monitoring the situation with the TEC?

The address is correct, although it is addressed to "The Company Secretary" of my ltd company which comes to my home address. I do wonder if the original PCN went to my accountants office, or perhaps the lease company?
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:25
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QUOTE (mcmoo @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:07) *
QUOTE
You need to monitor the situation with the traffic enforcement centre (TEC) to ensure you don't miss the order for recoveries - as you'd didn't get PCNs especially.

That's a good point, as I'm concerned missing that could result in enforcement action. How do I go about monitoring the situation with the TEC?

Nothing can happen for a couple of weeks.

OfRs come after the debts are registered with TEC.

If nothing received in 3 weeks, phone them, 0300 123 1059.
If they have no record of PCN Nos. debts are not registered. Check at 10ish day intervals.

If they are registered and still no OfRs received come back here ---- you can make the declarations anyway.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:25


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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DancingDad
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:25
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You can phone them and ask re the address used but IMO unlikely to be anything different to the one used on the CC.
They get RK details from DVLA and usually do not deviate from those.

Re the one for another car.
I would also be writing to them stating very clearly that this car has never been registered to the company and is bu55er all to do with you.
Still use the OfR that should come and follow the advice already given but writing now puts it on record.
I assume on what you have said that the company is yours.
Don't forget to sign anything "On behalf off..." or XXXX, Director, Company
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:29
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:25) *
You can phone them and ask re the address used but IMO unlikely to be anything different to the one used on the CC.
They get RK details from DVLA and usually do not deviate from those.

Re the one for another car.
I would also be writing to them stating very clearly that this car has never been registered to the company and is bu55er all to do with you.

Just my view but I wouldn't do any of this:
Likely to delay the reset process.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:31
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QUOTE (mcmoo @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:07) *
the lease company?


The lease company is presumably the registered keeper and got the original PCN or PCNs? If so you should call them and ask about what the timeline on your PCN and also if the other VRM is one of theirs and was assigned to you by mistake.

But you should have got PCNs issued in your company name.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:31
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peterguk
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:57
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QUOTE (mcmoo @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:07) *
The address is correct, although it is addressed to "The Company Secretary" of my ltd company which comes to my home address. I do wonder if the original PCN went to my accountants office, or perhaps the lease company?


The only address the council would have been given is the address on the V5C at the time of the contravention.


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DancingDad
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 09:05
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:29) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 08:25) *
You can phone them and ask re the address used but IMO unlikely to be anything different to the one used on the CC.
They get RK details from DVLA and usually do not deviate from those.

Re the one for another car.
I would also be writing to them stating very clearly that this car has never been registered to the company and is bu55er all to do with you.

Just my view but I wouldn't do any of this:
Likely to delay the reset process.


Or possibly would show that PCN went to wrong address and possibly avoid the reset process for the unknown car.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
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hcandersen
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 09:56
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The CCs were issued on 17th, therefore you have until at least 31st before any OfRs come your way. If you look on the reverse of the CCs you should see the latest date for payment. Obviously an OfR could not be issued prior to this date, probably at least 7-10 days later.

So there's no need to rush at this. Two PCNs in one thread always complicates matters, c'est la vie.

Can I describe your PCNs as the leased one and the non-leased one (it is only one which your company has on lease, isn't it?).

Leased car
The PCN would have been issued to the registered keeper i.e. the lease company, not you. They could then either pay, formally transfer liability to you through the authority or forget to deal with it. You don't know which. I suggest you contact your lease company and ask them whether they received a PCN and what they did. What is the address of record for your company held by the lease company?

The car for which you (as in company) are the RK
Just wait for the OfR. Don't overcomplicate matters. Look at the latest date for payment of the CC and cntact the council a couple of days later and regularly until you know it's on its way.
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 10:06
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 09:56) *
The car for which you (as in company) are the RK

There isn't one: Vehicle is entirely unconnected to OP.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 10:26
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The OP is in the authority's eyes smile.gif

But I take the point that the OP claims not to be!

Most likely scenario is that the OP is responsible for both contraventions therefore both original PCNs went to the lease company who between them and the council have included wrong details in part of the CC.

OP, if you want to play Sherlock Holmes you could ask the lease company whether the unknown VRM is on their books!
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