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Camden PCN - online Pay-by-phone malfunctioning
NotFair
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:00
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Hi all,

I've received a Camden (windscreen) PCN for 'parking without paying'.

The reason is - the RingGo website simply didn't work. I have taken screenshots of multiple attempts at paying, including one attempt where it seems to be processing a payment, but all ended in an error message.

I had to rush off to work hence couldn't move the vehicle or park it anywhere else.

I was wondering if anyone knows any examples/cases where a challenge has been made due to an IT error like this? Tried a forum search but didn't get very far.

I'll post up the PCN pics later on today, but any ideas in the interim would be very welcome.

Thank you

This post has been edited by NotFair: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:01
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post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:00
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cp8759
post Sat, 29 Dec 2018 - 17:57
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QUOTE (NotFair @ Sat, 29 Dec 2018 - 12:59) *
Would adding this be helpful, or just complicate the appeal? My concern is that the appeal will be refused on the grounds that I could have paid using another method. I strongly dispute this.

There's nothing to dispute, the first adjudicator made a finding of fact that you could not pay by other means, the reviewing adjudicator cannot overturn that finding of fact even if he disagrees with it or if he would have made a different decision, a finding of fact can only be overturned if it is manifestly wrong or if there is no evidence to support it. So I wouldn't add anything on that point: on this particular issues, you've already won. The only error the adjudicator made was in mis-applying the relevant law.


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NotFair
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:43
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Unfortunately, the review request has been rejected, leaving me with no option but to pay up. sad.gif

I feel the reasons stated are weak. For academic interest, here they are:

QUOTE
  1. The general principles of review are that findings of fact and law are generally final. One Adjudicator will not overturn the findings of fact or law of another unless there are compelling reasons for doing so, such as where the findings are not compatible with the evidence before the original Adjudicator or the law.
  2. I conclude that the original Adjudicator was entitled to reach the decision on the basis of the evidence submitted. The original Adjudicator found as a fact that the applicant's vehicle was in contravention as alleged. The decision was based on cogent evidence including the observations of the applicant's vehicle. Therefore the original Adjudicator was entitled to make this finding.
  3. The original Adjudicator also made findings that if the applicant was unabel to purchase parking time he should have parked elsewhere. The original Adjudicator was entitled to come to this conclusion on the evidence for the reasons given. Adjudicators are not bound by the decisions of colleagues.
  4. The applicant's latest representations are essentially no more than a disagreement with the original Adjudicator's findings and a repetition of the submissions made before. There is no reason to conclude that the original Adjudicator did not consider all the evidence submitted and all matters raised in the applicant's original representations.
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cp8759
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:08
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If you feel strongly about the matter you could go down the judicial review route. I very much doubt the High Court would agree that if all payment options are out of action, you must park elsewhere.


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DancingDad
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 08:26
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This case if one which illustrates why we can never guarantee results.
I still think you had a good chance of a win and that the adjudicator could have found in your favour.
But got no reason to say that they were not entitled to find as they did.
Sorry
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NotFair
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 19:05
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It's quite disappointing because I genuinely feel the council are at significant fault here. They don't keep their systems running properly, and somehow the motorist is still the guilty party.

I'll chalk it up to experience - perhaps my reps and submission to LT weren't good enough (although I really thought they were!)

With regards to High Court - I'm not sure it's worth the continuing battle. It could be argued that I should have phoned/SMS'd to pay. Although I dispute that, there's no way for me to prove it definitively (although beyond reasonable doubt is another matter).

Oh well. Thanks for all the help.
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NotFair
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 19:27
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Right, this is getting silly.

The Camden website won't let me pay...!

It says "No Balance can be found for the reference entered."

Looks like I now wait for the Charge Certificate and try and argue the price down.

This post has been edited by NotFair: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 19:28
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cp8759
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 22:46
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QUOTE (NotFair @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 19:27) *
Looks like I now wait for the Charge Certificate and try and argue the price down.

Try calling them, you won't have any grounds to challenge later on.


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NotFair
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 22:46) *
QUOTE (NotFair @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 19:27) *
Looks like I now wait for the Charge Certificate and try and argue the price down.

Try calling them, you won't have any grounds to challenge later on.


Already tried that. PCN number not recognised, and I'm redirected to a 'customer service agent' who never picks up.

The whole process stinks.

I am now using the appeals site to send them a message saying I've tried my best!
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DancingDad
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 07:52
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It may be that the council have taken on board that this is unjust and cancelled.
Pigs may fly as well. smile.gif
Keep trying.
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cp8759
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 13:16
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QUOTE (NotFair @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 00:47) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 22:46) *
QUOTE (NotFair @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 19:27) *
Looks like I now wait for the Charge Certificate and try and argue the price down.

Try calling them, you won't have any grounds to challenge later on.


Already tried that. PCN number not recognised, and I'm redirected to a 'customer service agent' who never picks up.

The whole process stinks.

I am now using the appeals site to send them a message saying I've tried my best!

Have you tried calling them on 020 7974 4444?


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NotFair
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:54
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 13:16) *
Have you tried calling them on 020 7974 4444?


Yes - '3rd place' in the queue for an hour before I gave up.
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cp8759
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:10
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QUOTE (NotFair @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:54) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 13:16) *
Have you tried calling them on 020 7974 4444?


Yes - '3rd place' in the queue for an hour before I gave up.

Drop them an email or, if all else fails, send payment by post.


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