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NIP 5 Months Late
jp1738
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:17
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I received an NIP (dated 07/01/2018) on the 9th Jan 2018 for a speeding offence at 23.20 09/07/2017 (83 on the motorway)

Some background, I had moved house in April 2017 and had updated my drivers licence but not my V5C but the NIP came to my new address and did not state it was a second letter.
I replied to the NIP by post on the 26th of January saying that I was contesting the NIP on the grounds that it arrived with me after the 14 day grace period, I also updated my V5C at this time which I have received back.

I now have received a letter (dated 13/02/2018) on the 15th Feb saying a reply has not been received and I need to respond to this letter in 7 days. I didn't send the reply by recorded delivery which was probably a mistake on my part but I did send it first class on the 26th Jan as I said. What action should I take? I think it might be best to phone them tomorrow but it would be good to have some idea of what my position is.

Thanks
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post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:17
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Jlc
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:35
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The 14 days doesn’t apply and you still need to name the driver.

...but they have 6 months to prosecute the speeding / you wouldn’t want to commit a separate offence...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:37
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By my reckoning they are out of time to prosecute you for speeding, which they have six months from the date of the offence to do. It would be a shame to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by committing a s 172 offence.


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Fredd
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:45
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QUOTE (jp1738 @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:17) *
I received an NIP (dated 07/01/2018) on the 9th Jan 2018 for a speeding offence at 23.20 09/07/2017

If you're certain that the speeding offence date was 9 July 2017, then as Southpaw has pointed out they seem to be too late to prosecute for that already.

QUOTE (jp1738 @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 18:17) *
I now have received a letter (dated 13/02/2018) on the 15th Feb saying a reply has not been received and I need to respond to this letter in 7 days. I didn't send the reply by recorded delivery which was probably a mistake on my part but I did send it first class on the 26th Jan as I said. What action should I take?

Complete the s172 form, clearly naming the driver. Don't equivocate, don't go on about the 14 days or anything else, just complete the form naming the driver, and return it to them immediately. If it were me I'd send it back Special Delivery, to make sure it arrives. You have a lifeline, so don't screw it up!


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jp1738
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:47
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Hi guys, OP here, thanks for the advice.

I'm definitely sure the offence was on 09/07/2017 it even says this on the letter I received today.

My issue is that when I sent the initial reply I included the NIP form along with it (not filled in) and I didn't take a copy - stupid I know. But I do have photos of the initial NIP so have all the details of it.

I want to avoid the points (if possible) but clearly don't want to make things worse. Is it enough for me to send in the drivers details that are requested on the form without using the form itself or are there blank ones I can download and print off or something? If i send in the details can I do this without accepting the fixed penalty and the points?

Thank you
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peterguk
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:50
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QUOTE (jp1738 @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:47) *
I want to avoid the points (if possible) but clearly don't want to make things worse. Is it enough for me to send in the drivers details that are requested on the form without using the form itself or are there blank ones I can download and print off or something? If i send in the details can I do this without accepting the fixed penalty and the points?

Thank you


Read Fredd's post no. 4.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:54


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Jlc
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:39
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QUOTE (jp1738 @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:47) *
Is it enough for me to send in the drivers details that are requested on the form without using the form itself

Yes. You don't have to use their form but you must supply the necessary details. (Driver details and signed)

What they do next will be interesting - they may take no action (when they realise) or issue a fixed penalty - but this can be ignored as they cannot prosecute (if the dates are as you say).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:39
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:50) *
QUOTE (jp1738 @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 20:47) *
I want to avoid the points (if possible) but clearly don't want to make things worse. Is it enough for me to send in the drivers details that are requested on the form without using the form itself or are there blank ones I can download and print off or something? If i send in the details can I do this without accepting the fixed penalty and the points?

Thank you


Read Fredd's post no. 4.


Perhaps you should read the post you are replying to. The OP cannot use the form as he has sent it back. That is why he is asking if he can provide the information without the form, or whether he can obtain a black form from elsewhere. Telling him to read (or re-read) an earlier post advising him to use the form is particularly unhelpful.

@OP - there is no requirement to use the form provided, as long as you comply with the substance of the requirement (Jones v DPP). Ideally, you would be able to use the form and not risk any unnecessary complications, but as you have already sent back the form that is no longer an option. Never seen blank s. 172 forms posted anywhere, and each force uses their own forms, so your best option would seem to be to provide the required
information in a latter or other document of your own creation - including the required signature, and relevant reference numbers, etc.

edit: In order to accept a fixed penalty, you would need to send off your licence and pay the penalty. I am struggling to imagine how a form could be worded to prevent you naming the driver without doing that.

This post has been edited by andy_foster: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:42


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jp1738
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:51
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Thanks for the advice Andy. Sounds like the best thing to do then is to send a signed letter with the details they requested on the form initially with a covering letter explaining why I'm not using the original form, to send this via recorded delivery and not to include my licence or pay the fine.
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Jlc
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:56
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QUOTE (jp1738 @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:51) *
...and not to include my licence or pay the fine.

Is there something about licence/paying fine then? (Which force is this? Avon & Somerset?)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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jp1738
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:02
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Yeah it is Avon and Somerset. On the original letter they essentially implied that by sending off the complete form you were accepting the penalty and you should send your licence off with it and pay the fine.

That's why initially when I wanted to contest I didn't fill out the form and just sent the letter saying I reject it.

Edit: Looking at the photo of the form the two options it gave were to accept the points or request court hearing. In hindsight I probably should have just taken the court hearing as they would probably have been out of time to summon me but at the time I just didn't want to go to court I just wanted to contest the time span it took to send it out

This post has been edited by jp1738: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:07
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Jlc
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:06
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A&S use a 'Super NIP' which includes a s172 and CoFP at the same time - obviously only applies if the recipient was the driver. However, the only obligation you have (caveat dates again) is to satisfy the s172 request.

They'd gratefully accept and process the 3 points and £100 mind. wink.gif Supplying the driver is not an admission of guilty of the underlying offence.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:07


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Churchmouse
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:10
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The form isn't even a requirement--answering the questions asked is the only requirement. So, as you have a photo, you know exactly what the questions were; answer them completely and unequivocally...and quickly.

--Churchmouse
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Logician
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 23:17
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:10) *
The form isn't even a requirement--answering the questions asked is the only requirement. So, as you have a photo, you know exactly what the questions were; answer them completely and unequivocally...and quickly. --Churchmouse


And do not enclose your licence or payment.



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