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Hackney CC NRT PCN
Mad Hatter
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 14:07
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Hi,

I drive in London for a living and normally drive alert. I got this PCN from Hackney and cannot recall seeing the sign, it was junction of Nuttall St and Hoxton St

I looked at the location on street view and can only think I missed it as there is a zebra crossing very close to it and May be the flashing beacon my have obscured the NRT sign.

Are there any grounds for an appeal?









Thank you
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post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 14:07
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cp8759
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 22:07
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QUOTE (Mad Hatter @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:03) *
Great. The twisted NLT sign is one proven line of defence but anything else I can use?

Can I use the charging order being sent before appeal was considered?

A premature charge certificate is almost guaranteed to be successful at appeal.


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Mad Hatter
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 12:21
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 22:07) *
QUOTE (Mad Hatter @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:03) *
Great. The twisted NLT sign is one proven line of defence but anything else I can use?

Can I use the charging order being sent before appeal was considered?

A premature charge certificate is almost guaranteed to be successful at appeal.


Do I need to say anything else? What format will it be? Sorry 1st time going to adjudication.
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cp8759
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 17:40
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QUOTE (Mad Hatter @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 12:21) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 22:07) *
QUOTE (Mad Hatter @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:03) *
Great. The twisted NLT sign is one proven line of defence but anything else I can use?

Can I use the charging order being sent before appeal was considered?

A premature charge certificate is almost guaranteed to be successful at appeal.


Do I need to say anything else? What format will it be? Sorry 1st time going to adjudication.

You need to say a bit more than that. I'm happy to write your appeal for you, but there is a chance the council might not contest (in which case it would have been a waste of time drafting an appeal). Check the status of the case on the tribunal website, if the council contest the case post their case summary on here and I'll write something up.


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Mad Hatter
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 18:45
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Thank you sir, will keep an eye on it and post up either way.

Thank you.
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Mad Hatter
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:03
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Thank you everyone for your help. Hackney have decided not to contest the appeal.

Nothing has changed from when I put it into them and now but DNC to the tribunal? I am minded to complaint about there attitude and fairness


On a side not got a letter from Northampton County Court about same ticket.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:18
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DNC was on the cards.

What letter from the court?
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cp8759
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 23:37
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QUOTE (Mad Hatter @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:03) *
Thank you everyone for your help. Hackney have decided not to contest the appeal.

Nothing has changed from when I put it into them and now but DNC to the tribunal? I am minded to complaint about there attitude and fairness


On a side not got a letter from Northampton County Court about same ticket.

IMO you should apply for costs (but show us the court letter, we might be able to make a stronger case depending on what it says):
-------------------
I hereby apply for an Order for Costs under regulation 12 of The Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, which apply to these proceedings by virtue of article 5 of The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Commencement No. 5 and Transitional Provisions) (England) (Amendment) Order 2008 and which state that:

12.—(1) The adjudicator shall not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses, but may, subject to paragraph (2) make such an order—

(a) against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn his appeal or a local authority that has consented to an appeal being allowed) if he is of the opinion that that party has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that his conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable; or
(b) against the local authority, where it considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.


The enforcement authority issued the PCN on 21st July and representations were made on my behalf by a third party. On 26th September 2018 the authority issued a letter stating that in order to consider my representations, I would need to write back within 14 days confirming the third party had my authorisation to make representations on my behalf. By my calculation the 14 day period starting with the date of service of this letter was due to elapse on 12 October 2018.

I wrote back to the authority confirming that the third party representations had been made with my authority and should be duly considered, this letter was posted on 5 October 2018 and proof of postage is enclosed, this letter is deemed to have been served on the authority on 9 October 2018.

However on 16 October 2018 the enforcement authority prematurely issued a charge certificate. The premature issue of a charge certificate is normally recognised as fatal to the enforcement process. On top of this, the Notice of Rejection served by the enforcement authority completely ignored the representations that had been submitted, indeed the central thrust of the representations (namely that the PCN was not compliant with the legislation) is not mentioned at all. Instead the rejection notice drones on about largely irrelevant matters and appears to be nothing more than a templated response.

In light of this, I submit that the authority's decision to reject my representations and pursue the matter further was a wholly unreasonable decision. The regulations allow the tribunal to make an order for costs where the disputed decision is wholly unreasonable, and I aver that this high threshold is met in this instance.

In light of this, I seek an order for costs in the amount of £76, which represents 4 hours at the LiP rate of £19 per hour for the time I have spent dealing with the matter.


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Mad Hatter
post Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 18:30
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This is the letter that was sent from NCC.

I think Councils should be penalised for DNC, if was right to DNC, why not accept the appeal?

I cant thank you enough to everyone who helped with this appeal.






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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 18:56
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That letter from the court is a crazy error that has the potential to cause you loads of pain.


You appealed, but the council issue a CC anyway. They decide to DNC but have not cancelled the CC but progressed it. Do you have a letter from London tribunal informing you they DNC? What date?

That Order for recovery needs dealing with, but not sure how. You only have until tomorrow to get this sorted. Wait for other to give some direction


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stamfordman
post Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 08:33
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Show us the DNC letter or email from the council.

I think you must call Hackney and ask them to sort it out.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 08:33
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cp8759
post Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 17:09
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I agree you need to call the council and get them to drop the OfR. Have you had anything from the tribunal to inform you of the outcome?

I'm thinking the application for costs should be revised in light of the OfR, but we need to get the OfR dealt with first.


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stamfordman
post Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 19:04
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Does anyone know why these two grounds, which are in parking witness statements, are not in moving traffic ones?

The appeal had not been determined by the time the charge certificate was served, or it was determined in your favour; or
You had paid the penalty charge.


I expect it's something to do with the legislation on parking and maybe an oversight on other contraventions (cock up rather than conspiracy).
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cp8759
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 00:58
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 19:04) *
Does anyone know why these two grounds, which are in parking witness statements, are not in moving traffic ones?

The appeal had not been determined by the time the charge certificate was served, or it was determined in your favour; or
You had paid the penalty charge.


I expect it's something to do with the legislation on parking and maybe an oversight on other contraventions (cock up rather than conspiracy).

In theory it's a problem that will solve itself because both the 1996 and the 2003 Acts are due to be repealed shortly and be replaced by the TMA 2004, and are only in force because we're in the transition period. Unfortunately the transition period, created by The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Commencement No. 5 and Transitional Provisions) (England) (Amendment) Order 2008, seems to have lasted a bit longer than initially anticipated.


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Mad Hatter
post Sun, 27 Jan 2019 - 09:39
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I had N email from the traffic tribunal and also letter from Hackney later on in the week.

Will upload them when back home.

Thank you
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Mad Hatter
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 07:23
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I received an email from the LTT on dated 15th January and it had a PDF letter attachment that says the below

Dear Mr XXXX

xxxxxx
-vLondon Borough of Hackney
(the Enforcement Authority)


The Enforcement Authority has informed the Tribunal that it will not contest your appeal against the
Penalty Charge Notice(s) stated above.
The adjudicator has therefore allowed your appeal without considering the evidence or any details of
the case. You are not liable for any further charge(s) against the Penalty Charge Notice(s) stated
above and, where appropriate, any amounts already paid will be refunded by the Enforcement
Authority.
If you have appealed against any other Penalty Charge Notice(s) not listed above, then your appeal
against those Penalty Charge Notices will proceed, as previously notified.
Please do not hesitate to contact this office if you have any queries about this.
Case Management Team

The letter from Hackney is dated 11th January adn basically says

"you have appealed to the environment and traffic adjudicators against the above penalty charge notice (PCN)2

and than says they will not contest the appeal and have cancelled the PCN and any money paid will be refunded.

Thank you
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 08:36
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And what have you done about the order for recovery. Simples if you do not get this sorted by speaking with the council bailiffs can turn up on your doorstep

Copy everything in writing


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Mad Hatter
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 19:29
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 08:36) *
And what have you done about the order for recovery. Simples if you do not get this sorted by speaking with the council bailiffs can turn up on your doorstep

Copy everything in writing



I have sent them an email and got auto reply.

How can they send bailiffs if ticket is cancelled??
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cp8759
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 00:49
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QUOTE (Mad Hatter @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 19:29) *
How can they send bailiffs if ticket is cancelled??

Incompetence


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