PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Incorrect registration MARK "P", Smart Parking - EARL HAIG, HOUNSLOW
PCN_VRM_P
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 00:33
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,922



Dear Forum members,

Good evening everyone, after quite sometime I am now into the business again smile.gif - PCN. I went to a birthday party on 28/07/2018 and park the car in the EARL HAIG car park, I read the signage and went back to find coins from the car, I have tried and entered the correct registration number but end up having a ticket which starts with "P" which was properly paid for 4 hours - by the way my car VRM starts with P as well. It might alert anyone that I might have only entered "P" rather than entering the full VRM but just to highlight I am living in Harrow, everywhere in Harrow we have these machines where You have to enter the VRM before the ticket is issued - Harrow council allowed 20 minutes free parking - lot of time we have used to opportunity, point here I wanted to make that I am pretty good in at least entering the VRM specially for my own car, definitely, very little chance of mistake there.

What goes in my mind is - P means parking and there is a possibility that it only gives P not the VRM as REG, should have re-worked it out the same time but I had two young kids.

On 9th August 2018, I have received a PCN which shows my car entering and exiting on 28/07/2018 - I bought the ticket for around 4 hours - starting from 18:15 to 22:15 - I was inside the birthday party hall beside the car park - I actually came out around 22:00 to take the car out as I have paid for 4 hours and parked somewhere else, I thought I did brilliant without realizing I am already going to get a ticket smile.gif.


I did raised an appeal on several occasion, I did not give driver's detail but the way I have written the appeal submitting online seems I have naively given them knowledge that I was the driver, PCN, detailed text, Refusal and with all the appeal i submitted online compiled in a word document.

Attached File  PCN_SMART_PARKING_16082018_1.doc ( 987K ) Number of downloads: 127


Please if you guys can kindly advise, I am planning to file a appeal to POPLA using the code given by SMART PARKING but before that I am thinking to write an email to Smart Parking with the below, also can anyone let me know what is the smallest number plate used in UK? I mean the length .

I would like to find out the below:



Dear Smart Parking,

After discussing with the driver, I would like to get few more details in order to prepare the case for the legal battle in case if we get rejected at POPLA, below are my questions:

1) It is a clear indication of Software/Hardware glitch with the print as the letter "P" clearly means Parking and seems like a valid acceptance as a ticket, I need a prove to understand that this is definitely not the case, Can You please provide me that this is not the case with an evidence - Log report will be handy along with a report to list the reg numbers with how many keys pressed on or around the time of buying the ticket? This will help me analyse how many key presses were done at the time of entering the VRM in order to identifying the error end.

2) I am gathering evidence from my local council where I have been parking day in and out using the VRM based parking machines - I have used my car since 2015 and never made a mistake in entering my VRM, point here I am making that clearly its not my mistake, I have correctly entered the registration number of my vehicle after the driver has parked the car. Please can You kindly provide me how many tickets with "P" has issues pre and post 28 days in order to better understand the issue.

3) Lastly, ticket machine should not have at any cost issued a ticket with "P" - I understand its solely the responsibility of the owner but what I don't understand a person can enter the first character "P" and get a ticket - all softwares has a minimum length check - point to be noted here I am not trying to highlight to check the actual car number plate validity from DVLA but all software has a minimum internal validations which checks the basic information like minimum length, max. length, alphanumeric characters etc and a VRM cannot be a single character excluding scenarios if there are any

Kind regards,
Registered Keeper



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 8)
Advertisement
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 00:33
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 07:30
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



OK, your story is confusing as all hell

Cut through the waffle please!

1) Your ticket shows "P" for the VRM? YES or NO? How did it show "just" P?
2) You definitley gave away the drivers identity, and have done it again on this public forum.
3) Appeal to POPLA using the massive lengthy appeal found on MSE. Include that it was entirley possible for SMART to reconcile the TWO datastreams - ANPR and ticket machine -= and corret the TICKET MACHINE data stream BEFORE issuing a PCN, to confirm a parking notice was not correctly issued. That Smart failed to do this means they have failed in their obligations as a Data Controller to ensure ALL data streams have accurate information.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 07:31
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (PCN_VRM_P @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 01:33) *
also can anyone let me know what is the smallest number plate used in UK? I mean the length .

Two characters.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 07:32
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,088
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



The PCN is not compliant with the requirements of POFA to HOLD the keeper liable so if the driver has not been identified then plain sailing but if the driver identified.....

As it is ANPR they know the VRMs of all the cars that have emtered the car park so they should have not issued a ticket for a car that was not there. As they accepted the VRM entered then this could be taken as agreeing to a variation in their conditions.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PCN_VRM_P
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 10:18
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,922



Thank You very much for your prompt response, appreciated and apologies for the lengthy post, I clearly don't want to annoy anyone. My answers are in bold and underlined.

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 08:30) *
OK, your story is confusing as all hell

Accept my sincere apologies was not sure where to start as everyone might think I have entered only "P"


Cut through the waffle please!

1) Your ticket shows "P" for the VRM? YES or NO? How did it show "just" P?

YES, it is showing "P" - this is exactly my question - I did enter the full VRM for sure but somehow it gives me the ticket with "P" which I was thinking, it should be right as "P" can be parking, wrongly assumed.

2) You definitley gave away the drivers identity, and have done it again on this public forum.

I think Yes, no turning back I suppose

3) Appeal to POPLA using the massive lengthy appeal found on MSE. Include that it was entirley possible for SMART to reconcile the TWO datastreams - ANPR and ticket machine -= and corret the TICKET MACHINE data stream BEFORE issuing a PCN, to confirm a parking notice was not correctly issued. That Smart failed to do this means they have failed in their obligations as a Data Controller to ensure ALL data streams have accurate information.

I will start looking into the lengthy appeal on MSE, I will then post back here.



My last question - Have you got anything to say on my original post where I started writing from "Dear Smart Parking" - underline - I mean the points as I know I cannot use the registered keep scenario.

Many thanks for your prompt response.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 10:35
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



If you are going to write to them, make it clear that

1) You entered your full, ocrrect VRM
2) that the machine only recorded a "P" is not your fault, but their machines
3) You deny any liability for their machines failure, you deny any failure to meet the terms of the contrac,t that if you HAD input the VRM incorreclty the machine accepted it and therefore accepted a variation ot their suppsoed contract, and that throughout this they KNOW the correct VRM to attribute the p[ayment to, because they have contacted you. There was no cause to raise a PCN as their machines failure to appropriately record the correctly input VRM just results in a corrupted datastream that they had all means in their power to correct

But you will need to appela to POPLA anyway.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PCN_VRM_P
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 13:20
Post #7


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,922



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 11:35) *
If you are going to write to them, make it clear that

1) You entered your full, ocrrect VRM
2) that the machine only recorded a "P" is not your fault, but their machines
3) You deny any liability for their machines failure, you deny any failure to meet the terms of the contrac,t that if you HAD input the VRM incorreclty the machine accepted it and therefore accepted a variation ot their suppsoed contract, and that throughout this they KNOW the correct VRM to attribute the p[ayment to, because they have contacted you. There was no cause to raise a PCN as their machines failure to appropriately record the correctly input VRM just results in a corrupted datastream that they had all means in their power to correct

But you will need to appela to POPLA anyway.



Hi nosferatu1001

Thank You so much for your response and support, appreciated Your valuable inputs, I will go through and before sending anything I will post here.

Many thanks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PCN_VRM_P
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 20:19
Post #8


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,922



Hi nosferatu1001

I do apologise for the delayed response, Can You please point me out "the lengthy appeal on MSE", I am unable to locate except the below:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5812389

or is the below:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5735483


Above seems quite lengthy, my question is, where I am going to add the below:


1) I have entered correctly full VRM as I have been entering in my local council where 20 mins parking is free but even for that I have to enter FULL VRM there is not a chance I have not entered it in full or wrongly.

2) It was entirely possible for SMART to reconcile the TWO data streams - ANPR and ticket machine and correct the TICKET MACHINE data stream BEFORE issuing a PCN, to confirm a parking notice was not correctly issued. That Smart failed to do this means they have failed in their obligations as a Data Controller to ensure ALL data streams have accurate information.

3) that the machine only recorded a "P" is not my fault, but their machines, software should have this minimum length check as per UK car number plate length should be more, if the software can make this mistake then it is highly likely that the machine even entering the FULL VRM by motorist will issue P.

4) I am denying any liability for their machines failure, I am denying any failure to meet the terms of the contract,t that if I HAD input the VRM incorrectly the machine accepted it and therefore accepted a variation of their supposed contract, and that throughout this they KNOW the correct VRM to attribute the payment to, because they have contacted you. There was no cause to raise a PCN as their machines failure to appropriately record the correctly input VRM just results in a corrupted data stream that they had all means in their power to correct


Lastly, I am not sure what to write in the appeal as the lengthy appeal looks completely different from my case if You or any one else can point me out would be great.

Many thanks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 08:39
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



MSE NEWBIES thread has example POPLA appeals

If you search the same site for the "data streams" wording you can also find examples by C-M (who is SchoolRunMum here) of using the incorrect datstreams argument.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 05:31
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here