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PCN code 34, Bus Gate Bridgwater Rd Taunton
0nlyme
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:14
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Hi All

I have recieved PCN code 34 for driving through a bus gate.

This is a small stretch of road for bus and cycle only. It is a 'no through' road (which I now know!)
There is a similar layout in Traffic Sign Manual diagram 15-14 on page 141 (but without jct markings) There is a 'bus and cycles only' road marking on one end of the road, NOT BOTH. Unfortunately, the end I was coming from just had 'bus gate' markings. There is a blue/white sign, but there is no 'ONLY' sign written anywhere. There is also a 'no right turn' sign, which adds to the confusion. Other road users could interpret this as being acceptable to continue on straight, just as long as they dont turn right.
It is on a new, very large housing development. The bypass has enclosed several businesses and a school and there are NO directional signs for access.

Eventually, after driving up and down the bypass several times looking for signage that directs motorists to these businesses, I was finally able to reach the garage to get a tyre repaired.
Coming out of the garage I did not go back the way I came, but continued along Bridgwater Road to go home, as I normally would have in the past. Unware of the approaching bus lane and that there was nowhere to go, I came across a 'bus/cycles and bus lane/cameras' sign which immediately preceded the bus gate. There are no warning signs for prohibited vehicles, no 'order' sign which gives motorists a clear message. Before you know it, you're already on the bus gate.

Looking at TSRGD 2016, I noticed 6.5 on page 28 states that 'ONLY' sign has been withdrawn....a small, simple, one-worded piece of info for road users, that I personally would have found really helpful, has been taken away. To me it would have made it clear, obvious and easy to understand. Roads, developments, new layouts etc...it's always changing, as is the law/legislation. Govt says we need less signs. Well, I dont know about that, but I do know that we need GOOD signs.

The following day I returned to the area and looked at the approaching signs. I drove slowly and that is when I noticed a 'no through road' sign preceding the school, about 1/2 mile away from the bus gate (I did not see this sign on the day I was caught, probly because I was a bemused road user with a deflating tyre.) My immediate thought being the 'no through road' sign needs to be further down the road, nearer the bus gate. For road users who visit residents/school/businesses and then continue on their way, this would serve as a reminder and give sufficient warning of the bus gate, in order for them to change their route.
Beyond this sign, there is no other signage until you are almost on the bus gate.

Having not used the roads around this area since the new development and thus unfamiliar with the road layout, (I did express to the guys at ATS what a nightmare it was to find access to them. I found their lack of response a little odd...you would think this is damaging their business and that a prior warning of this new enforcement would have been greatly appreciated by their customers!) There was no intent to commit a code 34 offence (I would have chosen to go back the way I came in order for me to return home in the right direction) I just wanted a tyre fixed. I thought I would run it past you guys first. Don't know what you think about the signage, I personally think the one and only critical 'no through road' sign is insufficient and not in the appropriate place.

This post has been edited by 0nlyme: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 09:37
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post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:14
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cp8759
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 22:10
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Can you give us a link to Google Street View for the location?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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0nlyme
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 09:17
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https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.03019...47.09h,4.66p,1z

I am not sure this will help as this shows the road before the bus gate was put in (it was finished and came into enforcement about 3 months ago) I have photos ... I will try to resize and upload

This post has been edited by 0nlyme: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 06:09
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 09:20
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QUOTE (0nlyme @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 09:17) *
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.03019...47.09h,4.66p,1z

I am not sure this will help as this shows the road before the bus gate was put in (it was finished and came into enforcement sept 2017) I have photos ... I will try to resize and upload



link your photos via an external hosting site flicker is recommended by some also get the video and post that
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0nlyme
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 10:29
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http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=5md2jq&s=9
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=24bt0z6&s=9
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=103gbvp&s=9
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2v02885&s=9
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=bhn53k&s=9

I used tinypic.
In the few minutes I was there taking these pictures, I saw 2 cars do the same as me. I am sure we are not dumb and blind...this is catching people out. You have to be SO careful sad.gif
I have tried to access the video on council website, but struggling to access. I will keep trying sad.gif
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DancingDad
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 10:42
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When approaching that junction, what is there in the way of warning signs ?
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0nlyme
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 10:51
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There is 'no through road' sign preceding the school, about 1/2 mile away from the bus gate. after that there is nothing, until you are right at the bus gate

waiting for video footage to be sent....what will this show? Will it make any difference????

Just found this article...5000 people caught so far icon_eek.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

http://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerse...es-raise-948285

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-42355277

This post has been edited by 0nlyme: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 21:37
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0nlyme
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:01
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 09:20) *
QUOTE (0nlyme @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 09:17) *
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.03019...47.09h,4.66p,1z

I am not sure this will help as this shows the road before the bus gate was put in (it was finished and came into enforcement sept 2017) I have photos ... I will try to resize and upload



link your photos via an external hosting site flicker is recommended by some also get the video and post that


I have the video now, but not sure about posting as it shows vehicle reg and you can only see the road with 'bus gate' marking and the car going past, you cant see anything above the ground. Not sure if this will help in any way.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 10:42) *
When approaching that junction, what is there in the way of warning signs ?


There is 'no through road' sign preceding the school, about 1/2 mile away from the bus gate. after that there is nothing, until you are right at the bus gate.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:26
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Here's the Order:-

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...ad-Bathpool.pdf

Doesn't mention Transport Act nor the 2005 Bus Lanes legislation. It mentions the TMA 2004 but I believe the bus lanes part of the TMA 2004 is still to be brought into force. Ergo it is "manifestly bad" but whether they can get away with the phrase "all other enabling powers" is the crux of any appeal of this nature.

Mick
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0nlyme
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 12:50
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:26) *
Here's the Order:-

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...ad-Bathpool.pdf

Doesn't mention Transport Act nor the 2005 Bus Lanes legislation. It mentions the TMA 2004 but I believe the bus lanes part of the TMA 2004 is still to be brought into force. Ergo it is "manifestly bad" but whether they can get away with the phrase "all other enabling powers" is the crux of any appeal of this nature.

Mick



Hi Mick
Thanks for the link. Apologies, but I am struggling with the amount of legislation and the wording (dont know about all other enabling powers....sounds like I would need help of a solicitor for comprehension)
I have opened up TMA 2004 and searched for 'bus lane', but cannot find anything. I also looked at The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005, looking for info on signage and markings.
I am specifically looking for legislation on signs/markings, what warnings need to be there before a bus gate, whether there is a stipulated distance and placement. My argument is the 1 critical 'no through road' sign that is quite a long way from the bus gate.
Just had a letter from SCC and the rep has been rejected. There are 2 signs that I have still missed: an 'all through traffic' sign and a 'no entry except buses and cycles' sign 650 yards from bus gate.
I will have to go back there again to check for these...I am feeling quite dumbstruck atm ohmy.gif wacko.gif blink.gif
HOW can so many people have been caught out by this??? sad.gif huh.gif
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 14:15
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OP----TBH you look bang to rights on the contravention if there is a warning sign.

Here's the TSM stuff:-

http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-03.pdf

Diagram 15.14 shows the layout you have except there is an "only" plate.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 14:15
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0nlyme
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 16:31
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 14:15) *
OP----TBH you look bang to rights on the contravention if there is a warning sign.

Here's the TSM stuff:-

http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-03.pdf

Diagram 15.14 shows the layout you have except there is an "only" plate.

Mick


When I go back to recheck I shall be looking for this 'no entry' sign 650yds away....I was looking carefully and cannot believe I missed it.
As for the 'all through traffic' sign, this does not make sense, as the road I was on is a no through road.

Yes, I did mention diagram 15.14 (above)
Why they are able/allowed to paint 'only' on one end of the road and not the other is a mystery.....but then according to TSRGD 2016, they dont have to anymore. This would have helped make it clear and obvious. sad.gif
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