Private Parking - CCJ - Have Proof That We Shouldn't Have Been Fined, Threads merged Options

[captain123]

Evening all.

Back in 2016 my wife parked up in a pub car park. We ate in the pub (spent £100), and on the way in we gave our registration plate upon request (presumably to make us exempt from any illegal parking fines issued for by non-customers).

A few months later we received parking penalty notice from a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd for parking in the pub. I think it was for £60. So we emailed the pub, explained the situation, sent them a screenshot of our bank statement (for paying for the food) and they agreed to cancel the parking fine. I have this written in an email as proof from the pub manager.

A few months later we received another notice asking for us to pay the fine. Since we were told this would be cancelled we ignored it. I tried phoning Civil Enforcement Ltd, but the phone line goes directly to a 'pay your fine' automated system. I've tried emailing them, and also their 'debt recovery' partners (ZZPS) but nobody is listening to me!

Shortly afterwards we received a notice of a CCJ/court order (can't remember specifically what it was), of which we also ignored. We then didn't hear anything and haven't heard anything since.

However when we came to remortgage a few months ago, we were rejected because my wife has a CCJ for this incident!

When we contacted Northampton courts they want an 'appeal' fee of £150 if I recall - which seems ridiculous since we've sent them the evidence that this fine shouldn't even exist!

So in summary, I've contacted the pub, the private parking company, the debt recovery company, the courts and it seems that I'm being passed from pillar to post even though I have evidence that we have mistakenly been fined!

I contacted consumer advice and they were like a chocolate fire guard to be honest.

I'm not honestly sure what else to do? Any advice is appreciated!

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[Jlc]

Yup, you will have to apply to have the judgment set aside - it's £255 for contested.

But the bad news might be that if you received and ignored the claim form then you may struggle.

CEL are notoriously difficult to deal with - but you may have to offer them the ridiculous amount they've claimed to get them to agree to an uncontested set aside - £100 fee.

Otherwise your credit history could be in tatters for 6 years. Did you receive a court order of judgment in default?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 - 20:51

[Redivi]

Shortly afterwards we received a notice of a CCJ/court order (can't remember specifically what it was), of which we also ignored.

That's why she has the CCJ
She didn't defend the claim so CEL was awarded a default judgment

I know claim forms look tatty but that didn't stop her checking if it was genuine
Shame because they're the easiest claims possible to defend

She can only apply for a set-aside if she didn't receive the claim form
It also costs £255, not £150

The only option I can see is to contact CEL and offer to pay the claim if they agree to the set-aside
This costs £100 for the judge to stamp the papers

[captain123]

Thanks both.

To be honest, we moved out of the house for a few months due to building works. So if we did receive further correspondence from the courts it probably ended up in a cement mixer!

Does it not count for anything that I have proof that it should have been cancelled before any court proceedings were even initiated?

Could I tell the pub I will claim from them for their incompetence in the first place?

"The only option I can see is to contact CEL and offer to pay the claim if they agree to the set-aside" - I *think* the fine is currently up to around £350 (with all the interest etc). I think that's what my wife's last credit check stated. But like I say, we've not received anything in the last 18 months!

I honestly have no idea how to contact CEL other than to get an address from Companies House and write to that?

What a joke this whole process is....

[The Rookie]

Could I tell the pub I will claim from them for their incompetence in the first place?

You can tell them pretty much anything, but frankly they should laugh at you as
1/ they will be pretty certain it’s just bluff and bluster
2/ you’d have a tough time winning the claim

[nosferatu1001]

Ignoring a claim form pretty much gave you no options
You were always going to get a CCJ

Youre focussing on the wrong part of the issue now - which is you have a CCJ against yu, and have ONE SINGLE CHOICE To try to get it removed - pay £100 for an UNcontested set aside. You will need to contact CEL, agree to pay IF they agree to the set aside, and prepare and get them to sign a consent order.

[captain123]

Blimey....

So to be clear, I should:

- Grab CEL's address from companies house
- Write to them saying words to the effect of "I will NOT contest the parking fine if you set it aside (£100). Otherwise I will start a court application (£255) which, given I have evidence that I was legally parked (the email), will probably dismiss the fine."

Does that seem about right? Pity, mind. Since this isn't the 'justice' I was after. :-(

[The Rookie]

Legally parked is meaningless with respect to private parking, use 'correctly parked'.

Fine is also not correct, it was an invoice, a fine only comes from criminal courts.

[nosferatu1001]

No, thats not correct

You ignored a court claim form
You cannot go for a contested set aside, unless you can find a good gtounds to do so; having a defence to the claim is NOT SUFFICIENT in this, to my understanding.

When looking to get a contested set aside youre asking a court to waste more time (on a hearing, they all presume a hearing will result) to deal with a topic youve already ignored. SO you need to persuade them that this is a good idea. But you dont really havea good reason

So, as I said

YOU pay the entire judgement and YOU pay the £100 fee to the court, and possibly a little more to get CEL to sign the consent order.
Very expensive lesson in not ignoring county court claim forms.

[captain123]

Just to be clear, if I asked them to set it aside, would the fine (£350 or whatever it is up to) essentially be written off? And I would just have to pay the £100 fee?

This post has been edited by captain123: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 14:10

[nosferatu1001]

What part of "OU pay the entire judgement and YOU pay the £100 fee to the court, and possibly a little more to get CEL to sign the consent order. " was unclear?

WHy would CEL not contest a set aside for a CCJ in their favour, unless you will be paying them in full?

[captain123]

So I agree to pay for the 'judgement' (I gather this is the appeal, although using this word you assume I'm either a lawyer or have a criminal history) of £255, and I also agree to pay CEL £100 to 'set it aside', which totals to £350?

Why not just pay the fine and have done with?

Do you not think, considering I didn't see any further court letters in the post (they can't prove I did...neither can I), and I have evidence that the pub tried to cancel the 'invoice' that I have a strong case?

[Redivi]

So I agree to pay for the 'judgement' (I gather this is the appeal, although using this word you assume I'm either a lawyer or have a criminal history) of £255
I also agree to pay CEL £100 to 'set it aside', which totals to £350?

No. Forget the £255
The judgment is the £300+ that the court has ordered you to pay to CEL
You pay the court £100 to set-aside the judgment without a hearing if CEL agrees

If it doesn't agree, you don't pay CEL anything but pay the court £255 to set aside the judgment
The court may refuse to set-aside because ignoring the claim isn't a valid reason

Why not just pay the fine and have done with?

Because it leaves the CCJ on file as "Satisfied" for six years
Not as bad as "Unpaid" but still on record as paid late

Do you not think, considering I didn't see any further court letters in the post (they can't prove I did...neither can I), and I have evidence that the pub tried to cancel the 'invoice' that I have a strong case?

The only letter that matters is the claim form
If you didn't receive that, you have a case - the set-aside can be granted because you had a reasonable change of defending the claim
If you did receive it and ignored it, the cancellation is irrelevant because you're not entitled to the set aside unless the judge is in a very good mood

This post has been edited by Redivi: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 14:33

[Sheffield Dave]

You're conflating two very different issues here - whether you can win a case, and whether you can get a set-aside of the existing judgement.

You were involved in a contractual dispute, which you may or may not have had a strong case against. The claimant took you to court over it, and because you (apparently) ignored all the court's paperwork, you had a default judgement against you: because the judge had to decide the case based only the claimant's argument and evidence.

Because you have a CCJ registered against you which you didn't pay within 28 days, this will affect your credit for 6 years. So the question is whether and how you can get that CCJ off your crefdit score.

Just paying now what is owed won't work, because after the month it stays on the register for 6 years regardless.

You could apply for a contested set-aside. This would require you have a good reason why the court's paperwork was ignored. A good reason would be because it was never served on you because the claimant used the wrong address. A poor reason would be that you just ignored it. You would have to pay a £255 fee to apply for the set-aside. If granted, the case would then be re-tried. If you have a strong case and win, you may be be able to get the £255 back off the claimant, as well as not having to pay them anything. If you have a weak case and lose, you have to pay them the £300 (or whatever) they are claiming for, and you probably don't get your £255 back (so you're £555 down). Whether you win or lose, then s long as you pay any money owed within a month of judgement, your credit rating will be cleaned up.

Or you could apply for an uncontested set-aside. This involves the agreement of and cooperation with the claimant. You pay the court £100 and the claimant it's £300 (or whatever), and the claim is registered as satisfied and your credit score is cleaned up. The reason why the claimant may agree to an uncontested set-aside is the incentivethat they get everything owed to them without any further hassle.

How strong your case is against the contractual charge has very little connection with whether the judgement can be set-aside - except that you may need to show at least some chance of success for the case to be retried.

(I am not a lawyer; some of the above may be an over-simplification).

[peodude]

gov.co.uk says:

If you do not owe the money - cancel the judgment

If you do not owe the money, you can ask the court to cancel the county court judgment (CCJ) or high court judgment. This is known as getting the judgment ‘set aside’.

You can do this if you did not receive, or did not respond to, the original claim from the court saying you owed the money.

You made a major mistake ignoring the court letter, as then you had a cast iron defence.

I'm in the minority here, but I would be tempted to go for the full N244 set aside application. You have it in writing agreeing to cancel the fine which should be enough to satisfy the judge at a N244 set aside hearing.

[Redivi]

The Court MAY set aside the judgment in the present circumstances but the OP has to act promptly

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...il/rules/part13

He wants to build into the request that CEL pays the costs of the set aside if it discontinues the claim

He also needs more than a single point defence and wants to include the points that :

His wife did nothing whatsoever wrong
Any failure to record the car was entirely the fault of CEL's own system
It's seeking to profit from its own failure
It doesn't have the landowner's authority to issue the claim as required by its Code of Practice
It was instructed to cancel the PCN by the Principal
The claim was not properly signed by either a solicitor or an identified company representative
It cannot recover the Legal Representative Fee
The additional charges haven't been incurred
Even if it had, it cannot recover the QFD solicitor charge in Small Claims Court

[captain123]

Thanks all.

I'm going to request a couple of ways forward.

Either I pay the original invoice of £60 if CEL agree in writing not to contest the set-aside (I'd also pay the £100 fee etc).

or

I raise a contested set aside, and if I win (and I have evidence the claim should have been cancelled by the establishment/CEL prior to the court judgement), I will also be claiming from CEL for the application fee.


Does that sound feasible?

[ostell]

Forget about the original invoice, CEL want the amount that the court ordered and you pay an additional £100 for an uncontested set aside on the condition that CEL withdraw from the claim

or

You raise a contested set aside with the court for £255 and hope that the court will grant it. Then you tell the court why the judgement should not have been made in the first place.

[The Rookie]

Either I pay the original invoice of £60 if CEL agree in writing not to contest the set-aside (I'd also pay the £100 fee etc).


Does that sound feasible?

Of course CEL will just agree to write off the best part of £300, you having made them incur extra costs to get a judgement and you having no bargaining power at all, why wouldn't they? Seriously......

[captain123]

Blimey. What an unfair system it is.

Ok then. I'm going to pay the £255 if there's a chance I don't have to pay these schmucks. Fortune favours the brave! And then....when I win (let's think positive)....I'm going to raise a claim against the pub for not cancelling the claim before it even got to the courts.

Wish me luck!