PCN with missing yellow lines and poor evidence Options

[ook6ooF1]

I got issued a PCN:

Code: 02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.

Here's the council's evidence:

http://tinypic.com/r/658tah/9
http://tinypic.com/r/263bq4h/9
http://tinypic.com/r/xgc2o/9

Here's a picture I took of the same scene after I moved my car:

http://tinypic.com/r/wrmis5/9

It feels unreasonable to me as there are no yellow lines to speak of and the sign is tiny. Also neither of these things are shown on the council's pictures.

I put in an initial challenge and they said

The points that you made in your letter have been carefully considered and I write to advise that you have not established grounds for cancellation. The penalty charge notice remains payable because you were parked during a loading ban. We appreciate that the lines have faded in areas, however even if there is a break in the lines it is still clear that the lines are in place and continue through the faded area.

Is this worth pursuing, in anybody's opinion?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by ook6ooF1: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 20:51

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[PASTMYBEST]

If the OP goes before an adjudicator and is as honest as he has been here, an adjudicator would have to find SC The Op knew the yellow lines should be there. If the OP is not as candid with an adjudicator they risk a 5K fine

I'm sorry but I could not disagree more. I've personally parked in very similar circumstances, where it was pretty obvious what the restrictions were, but they were not enforceable. I got 7 PCNs over a number of days, at the tribunal the adjudicator asked me why I kept parking there. I told him that as far as I was concerned it was a matter of principle, if the restrictions were not properly signed, I would not be intimidated into not parking at that location just by the council unlawfully serving me with PCNs. All 7 appeals allowed, no 5k fine.

So if I say I knew the unmarked area should be marked I would lose, and if I said I didn't know I will be fined £5K for lying?!

I don't see why, the subjecting knowledge of a particular motorist is irrelevant as has been ruled on numerous occasions. What counts is whether a notional diligent motorist would be given adequate notice of the restrictions by the signage at the location, and the answer to that is clearly no.

Your 1st point would seem to be exactly the sameargument as that purported by Herron in Sunderland. Different adjudicators different views

[Incandescent]

I think one eventually comes back to the High Court judge when a parking case went to judicial review, who said that under the de-criminalised parking scheme, (this was the 1991 Act), councils can claim penalty charges if a number of statutory conditions are met. If those are not met then no penalty can be demanded. This judgment would seem to apply here, in that the council have failed to sign the restriction adequately.

[PASTMYBEST]

I think one eventually comes back to the High Court judge when a parking case went to judicial review, who said that under the de-criminalised parking scheme, (this was the 1991 Act), councils can claim penalty charges if a number of statutory conditions are met. If those are not met then no penalty can be demanded. This judgment would seem to apply here, in that the council have failed to sign the restriction adequately.

I have no problem with the argument being made, but it is not a sure fired winner. Indeed talking to a local CEO recently, he told me that instructions from their managers are that if a gap in lines is greater than a car length they should not issue a PCN

[ook6ooF1]

Hi all,
Thanks for your wisdom thus far. The NTO has now arrived, and I have drafted a reply (taking into account this thread about a ticket from the same council)

The PCN does not include the mandatory information required by
regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of the Appeals Regulations. The regulations
say that a PCN must state that:

`if representations against the penalty charge are received at such
address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner
is served:

(i) those representations will be considered;

(ii) but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those
representations, representations against the penalty charge must be
made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to
owner.'

Parliament has mandated that this warning must be included in the PCN
and the council cannot ignore this requirement. Doing so unlawful and
prejudicial.

Futhermore, the double-yellow at the point of the alleged
contravention are completely absent. Inspection of the street shows
that they stop several feet behind the back of the car's position, and
only resume (in a very broken and unclear fashion) several feet after.
They are far from clear, especially at night. Neither double yellow
lines nor signage are shown on the photographic evidence supplied by
the council.

Due to these procedural improprieties I would ask the council to
cancel the ticket.

Any comments/suggestions would be very welcome!

[PASTMYBEST]

we would need to see the back of the PCN to make a worthwhile comment

[cp8759]

we would need to see the back of the PCN to make a worthwhile comment

+1, just because there's a known flaw on a council's PCN doesn't guarantee they haven't fixed it since.

[ook6ooF1]

Thanks, both. Here's the back of the PCN.

Let me know if you need anything else.

[cp8759]

Yes the PCN still has the same flaw, so you can challenge it on the same basis as the other thread.

[ook6ooF1]

Thanks. I have submitted a representation; I'll post an update as and when...

[ook6ooF1]

As of today I have heard nothing back, so I'm hopeful this has gone away. The double-yellows in question have now been repainted much more clearly...

Thanks, everybody, for your assistance!

[awaits letter in the post tomorrow morning]

[Incandescent]

Never assume anything in this game. Too many people do and then bailiffs knock on the door ! Check the status of the PCN with the council.

[ook6ooF1]

Thank you, I have sent a message to the council asking for a status update.