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PCN Received in a space with no markings or signs, No white markings
JustAnotherMotor...
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 22:47
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We received a PCN today in a space with absolutely no markings or signs

Here is the appeal I am sending off:

Dear Sir or Madam,

REF : XXXX

My wife and I wish to make a representation against the imposition of the Penalty Charge for PCN Number XXXX received today in Popes Avenue, Twickenham

The representation is made on the following grounds
The alleged contravention did not occur
There are no white lines / markings or any notices on the side of the street our vehicle was parked. Attached are supporting photographs.

If this appeal is rejected what is the next step? I want to fight this as far as I can because it is wrong.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/4051/UdV5BY.jpg




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post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 22:47
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Neil B
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 23:22
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I think the assumption it's that simple is unwise.

Probably relevant to https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3202005

Somewhere around here; to the left maybe?
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4434573,-0....6384!8i8192


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:06
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Show us all the council images.


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JustAnotherMotor...
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:14
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:06) *
Show us all the council images.


It was parked where this silver Ford is parked on the left

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4414411,-0....6384!8i8192

QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 23:22) *
I think the assumption it's that simple is unwise.

Probably relevant to https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3202005

Somewhere around here; to the left maybe?
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4434573,-0....6384!8i8192



It was parked where the silver Ford is parked here on the left
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4414411,-0....6384!8i8192

On the other side of the road were white markings but not on the side where we parked
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Neil B
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:53
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And the council pics?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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JustAnotherMotor...
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:40
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:53) *
And the council pics?


Apologies...

Council pics now attached

I have no idea where this sign is but we could not see it when we parked



QUOTE (JustAnotherMotorist @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:35) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 19:53) *
And the council pics?


Apologies...

Council pics now attached

I have no idea where this sign is but we could not see it when we parked



I have now worked out where this sign actually is... !!

Right down the bottom of the road - nowhere near where the actual parking space is !! It is by the recycling bins seen in the picture on the right here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4388435,-0....6384!8i8192

I can't quite believe this
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image


Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
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Neil B
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:47
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QUOTE (JustAnotherMotorist @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 20:40) *
I have no idea where this sign is but we could not see it when we parked


I have now worked out where this sign actually is... !!

Right down the bottom of the road - nowhere near where the actual parking space is !! It is by the recycling bins seen in the picture on the right here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4388435,-0....6384!8i8192

I can't quite believe this

And there'll be another at the other end.

Not looking good but wait for others' views.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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phantomcrusader
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 21:01
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contravention is code 12s and PCN says you were in a shared use bay. I don't see any evidence of that. PCN also says "CPZ SH" but no CPZ sign (controlled parking zone) is featured.
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Neil B
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 21:17
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QUOTE (phantomcrusader @ Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 21:01) *
contravention is code 12s and PCN says you were in a shared use bay. I don't see any evidence of that.

Good point and it can't be, according to the PPA sign.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 23:40
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I agree, it should be contravention 19, Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit


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JustAnotherMotor...
post Sat, 23 Mar 2019 - 09:55
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 23:40) *
I agree, it should be contravention 19, Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit

[quote name='Neil B'

Thank you so much Phantom Crusader, Neil and cp8759

I will amend my appeal accordingly and keep you updated rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by JustAnotherMotorist: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 - 10:12
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hcandersen
post Sat, 23 Mar 2019 - 10:52
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Strictly speaking it should be neither!

The OP did not display any permit as far as this thread reveals, so 19 is not applicable.

And we know that adjs don't attach much weight to the distinction between 'permit' holder and 'resident's permit' holder.

So IMO it should be 16 but this would not win at adj and would not persuade the council either.

OP, do not get your hopes up on this point.

You were in a 'permit parking area' and parked in a parking place subject to the restriction indicated on the sign:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made

and the sign is at Item 5, Part 3 Sign Table

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made

DYLs within a PPA are perfectly OK.

I'm interesed in 'On the other side of the road were white markings but not on the side where we parked' as this could be a defence depending on whether these are 'signed bays' and what restriction applies.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 - 10:56
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