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Court papers for speeding offence from July 2019 received
settop23
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 13:15
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Hi,

Back in July 2019 i receieved a NIP for a vehicle that i was the registered keeper for. The offence was speeding, and i replied to the NIP naming the driver at the time of the offence (it was not me). After a month i receieved another NIP reminder, and it seemed obvious that they had not receieved my first reply so i sent the NIP back recorded delivery in september. I have a tracking number and signature that the NIP i sent back was receieved on 13 September 2019.

After this i heard nothing, until today when i have receieved a court summons under my name with the option of pleading guilty by post, or pleading not guilty and going to trial. What is the best way forward of dealing with this, will a trip to court be necessary?

Many thanks
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post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 13:15
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cp8759
post Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 14:43
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QUOTE (settop23 @ Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 13:54) *
If, as i suspect, one of the NIPS was wrongly filled in naming me as the driver, could i also be charged with failing to provide driver details?

As I understand it it's down to whether the information was provided either knowingly or recklessly. If the response was simply reckless then you could be pursued for that offence, though if it's still possible to pursue the driver for the underlying offence that would be a tad harsh.


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andy_foster
post Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 19:20
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 14:43) *
QUOTE (settop23 @ Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 13:54) *
If, as i suspect, one of the NIPS was wrongly filled in naming me as the driver, could i also be charged with failing to provide driver details?

As I understand it it's down to whether the information was provided either knowingly or recklessly. If the response was simply reckless then you could be pursued for that offence, though if it's still possible to pursue the driver for the underlying offence that would be a tad harsh.


It is not so much your understanding that I question as your ability to read the question posed before attempting to answer it.

If it can be shown that the OP (or anybody else for that matter who had been the subject of a requirement under s. 172 RTA 1988 to name the driver) had failed to do so, they could be convicted of that charge if proceedings for that charge were instigated lawfully (in time) and if there was no applicable defence. Providing incorrect information recklessly would not be a defence.

Any s. 172 offence would have been committed at the expiration of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the NIP/s. 172 on that person. Subsequent NIPs to the same person would not count. Proceedings would then have to be instigated within 6 months of the date of the s. 172 offence.

For the more serious offence of perjury and/or perverting the course of justice, there would be a requirement for mens rea - in other words it would have to be deliberate (knowingly, etc.).


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settop23
post Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 21:00
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It seems I have some thinking to do. My mum is devastated about all of this, and has been waiting for her NIP, but she is now very upset at the prospect of me being punished for filling the form in haste.

the police may take about a week to get back to me, and I have around 15 days left to enter a plea so I will have a look at the forms, although im fairly certain I know what mistake I made.

This post has been edited by settop23: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 - 21:02
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settop23
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 11:32
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Hi

The police have still not got back to me regarding the forms i asked for. I need to make a plea by 28 January according to the SJP so what is the best way forward?

thanks
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The Rookie
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 11:58
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If you plead not guilty you'll only lose 8% (33 down to 25%) of the discount if you later change it to guilty.

Besides, as you know you were not driving, how can you plead guilty to the driving offence? All the forms will tell you is how we handle the defence.


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Jlc
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 12:20
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What did you ask for? And I suspect you've used a general Police contact form? (If it's the CrimPR Part 8 stuff then this would need to be directed very specifically)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 12:20


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mayhem007
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 12:40
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QUOTE (settop23 @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 14:15) *
Hi,

Back in July 2019 i receieved a NIP for a vehicle that i was the registered keeper for. The offence was speeding, and i replied to the NIP naming the driver at the time of the offence (it was not me). After a month i receieved another NIP reminder, and it seemed obvious that they had not receieved my first reply so i sent the NIP back recorded delivery in september. I have a tracking number and signature that the NIP i sent back was receieved on 13 September 2019.

After this i heard nothing, until today when i have receieved a court summons under my name with the option of pleading guilty by post, or pleading not guilty and going to trial. What is the best way forward of dealing with this, will a trip to court be necessary?

Many thanks

1 How long, after the first NIP, did you reply.
2 How long, after the reminder, did you reply.

It appears that you waited until the last minute, which you are perfectly entitled to do.

It also appears the 2 NIPs may have been 2 ships that passed in the night.


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settop23
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 12:56
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Hi

Yes you are correct , the first NIP I returned was quite close to the 28 day limit. A week or so after posting it, I received the reminder, and guessed the first one had not been received or processed.

I contacted the police force greater Manchester police using a generic online form he’d. There are no details on the SJP from them except their standard landline number. Please could you tell me the best way to direct my request so that I can get the evidence Asap

many thanks
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The Rookie
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 13:03
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Phone and ask to speak to the camera team (who you sent the replies to) or ask them who to speak to.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Mayhem007
post Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 13:16
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QUOTE (settop23 @ Thu, 23 Jan 2020 - 13:56) *
Hi

Yes you are correct , the first NIP I returned was quite close to the 28 day limit. A week or so after posting it, I received the reminder, and guessed the first one had not been received or processed.

I contacted the police force greater Manchester police using a generic online form he’d. There are no details on the SJP from them except their standard landline number. Please could you tell me the best way to direct my request so that I can get the evidence Asap

many thanks

Do you and your father have the same name for example

Robert John Downey Jnr
Robert John Downey Snr.

I cannot recollect whether NIPs ask if you were the driver.


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