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parked fully on pavement
student
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:15
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I have seen many cars parked in this spot before with no tickets issued likewise I have parked here previously with no issues. It seems it was only myself who got a ticket, none of the cars parked on DYLs/maintenance entrance got tickets. I would assume the sign relates to the area beyond the white gate?











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post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:15
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stamfordman
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 18:54
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You are right - beyond the sign is a car park. You are bang to rights on a public road, hence the PCN. Yellow lines cover pavements and verges up to property boundaries.

Off street car parks have different rules but councils often ticket them too so may well be being lenient there.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 09:27
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A clear contravention.

As regards the contravention, you could ask them to exercise discretion on the basis of your prior experience of parking without issue. Apologise and say it won't happen again.

As regards the PCN, it is IMO fatally flawed because it does not convey all of the information mandated by the regulations.

This is what it is required to state:

2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, .... include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

(b)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i)those representations will be considered;

(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.


The part in bold is missing, or have I missed it?

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student
post Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 20:52
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 10:27) *
A clear contravention.

As regards the contravention, you could ask them to exercise discretion on the basis of your prior experience of parking without issue. Apologise and say it won't happen again.

As regards the PCN, it is IMO fatally flawed because it does not convey all of the information mandated by the regulations.

This is what it is required to state:

2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, .... include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

(b)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i)those representations will be considered;

(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.


The part in bold is missing, or have I missed it?


I can't see any words to that effect either, is it worth an appeal on this basis?

This post has been edited by student: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 20:53
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Incandescent
post Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 23:16
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When I last looked at this clause, it became clear that what is mandatory information on a PCN is contained in two separate pieces of legislation. This is what the General Regulations state for the content of a PCN under Regulation 9: -

QUOTE
SCHEDULE
PENALTY CHARGES NOTICES
Contents of a penalty charge notice served under regulation 9
[u][b]1. A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it by regulation 3(2) of the Representations and Appeals Regulations, state—
[/b][/u]
(a)the date on which the notice is served;
(b)the name of the enforcement authority;
©the registration mark of the vehicle involved in the alleged contravention;
(d)the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred;
(e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable;
(f)the amount of the penalty charge;
(g)that the penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served;
(h)that if the penalty charge is paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served, the penalty charge will be reduced by the amount of any applicable discount;
(i)the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid; and
(j)that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.


I have underlined and put in bold the reference to the regulations for representations and appeals. If you then go and look at these, you find the relevant clause: -
QUOTE
Scope of Part 2 and duty to notify rights to make representations and to appeal
3.—(1) Regulations 4 to 7 have effect where a penalty charge which has become payable under the General Regulations has not been paid and either—

(a)a penalty charge notice has been served by a civil enforcement officer under regulation 9 of the General Regulations, and a notice to owner served by the enforcement authority under regulation 19 of those Regulations; or
(b)a penalty charge notice has been served under regulation 10 of the General Regulations.
(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and
(b)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—
(i)those representations will be considered;
(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

Frankly, I find this kind of thing quite disgraceful and indicative of poor law making. The content of any PCN should be in a single place. However it is clear what the mandatory content of a Reg 9 PCN must be, and a PCN not having it makes it void.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 23:18
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cp8759
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 21:43
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This is a regulation 9A PCN, but the same rules apply. In any case, we know the Stoke-on-Trent Notice to Owner also contains a fatal will / may flaw, so absolutely no point in paying this one. Banged-to-rights on the contravention, but given the technical issues with the paperwork that hardly matters.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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student
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 23:49
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Thank you for the replies. To update this is the current situation.

My informal challenge was as follows:

QUOTE
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you in challenge of the PCN you served on 04/04/19. I have prior experience of parking without issue on the pictured pavement and witnessed no other cars had been served PCN’s in line with the signage for Lyme valley park. It seems my car was singled out by the civil enforcement officer for no particular reason.

As regards the PCN, it is flawed because it does not convey all of the information mandated by The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007:

It is required to state:

2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, .... include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

(b)that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i)those representations will be considered;

(ii)but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

Source: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3482/made

I have highlighted in bold the missing information for this PCN to comply with the regulations. It is my hope for these reasons that with discretion you will cancel the PCN.
Regards,
...


The reply was as follows

QUOTE








My predicament is that the car is a courtesy car whilst my car has insurance work completed, therefore if left unpaid the notice to owner will not come to me. I suspect the dealership would not entertain a formal representation and as I signed a contract that states I would be liable for parking charges whilst the car is in my possession, I suspect I will have to at some point pay up.

I'm considering calling the council to see if I can speak with the person who formulated the reply.

This post has been edited by student: Mon, 6 May 2019 - 23:52
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cp8759
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 15:08
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The rejection is tosh but councils never accept these arguments, as they're hardly going to admit their PCN template is wrong: If they did that, they would reasonably need to cancel all outstanding PCNs, which they're hardly going to do.

I suggest you call the dealer, explain to them that you've taken legal advice, the PCN is flawed and you want to make a formal challenge against it. As long as you tell them that if it doesn't work out you'll pick up the tab, there is no reason for them to refuse. As the PCN can't increase to more than £70 (which is the amount demanded in the Notice to Owner), there is literally zero point in paying the Notice to Owner (providing of course that the relevant deadlines are not missed).

We can't give you a money back guarantee but the missing details on the back of the PCN are enough to win the case on its own. Add to this the fact that they clearly haven't considered the representations (which amounts to a failure to consider - a further procedural impropriety) and you have a really strong case.

You'll need the dealer to give you the Notice to Owner (or at least a copy) plus a signed letter authorising you to dispute the NtO on their behalf.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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