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Reducing Speed Limits: Make Norfolk Safe Again...for Prince Philip, Threads merged
Churchmouse
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 12:54
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46912556

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Another "speed enforcement is lacking, let's lower the speed limit" story (with a royal twist).

--Churchmouse
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post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 12:54
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DancingDad
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 13:18
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At least on that road, if the reports are believed, there is some justification in reducing the limit.

One similar we had recently came about after a crash that killed six (Belgrave Middleway)
Calls have come from safety/speed campaigners to reduce the speed limit there, currently 40mph IIRC.
Considering that the vehicle seemingly to blame (or at rather the driver) was estimated at being in excess of 90-100, I have to ask, what difference would a lower limit have made ???
Or would do to avoid a similar accident in the future?
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cp8759
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:21
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You would have thought the most sensible course of action would be to simply install average speed cameras and enforce the 60 mph limit. It's cheaper and could have been just as effective.


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Fredd
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:21) *
You would have thought the most sensible course of action would be to simply install average speed cameras and enforce the 60 mph limit. It's cheaper and could have been just as effective.

Although since there's currently no suggestion that the non-Royal party was exceeding the 60mph limit, perhaps the limit is too high for the road anyway?


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cp8759
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 19:43
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:21) *
You would have thought the most sensible course of action would be to simply install average speed cameras and enforce the 60 mph limit. It's cheaper and could have been just as effective.

Although since there's currently no suggestion that the non-Royal party was exceeding the 60mph limit, perhaps the limit is too high for the road anyway?

Perhaps, but DancingDad's comment suggests that previous incidents were caused by exceeding the 60 limit by some margin. Call me overly cynical but my view is that highways authorities sometimes have knee-jerk reactions and chose to lower limits, while maybe the old limit was perfectly fine but never really enforced.


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DancingDad
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 20:33
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 19:43) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:21) *
You would have thought the most sensible course of action would be to simply install average speed cameras and enforce the 60 mph limit. It's cheaper and could have been just as effective.

Although since there's currently no suggestion that the non-Royal party was exceeding the 60mph limit, perhaps the limit is too high for the road anyway?

Perhaps, but DancingDad's comment suggests that previous incidents were caused by exceeding the 60 limit by some margin. Call me overly cynical but my view is that highways authorities sometimes have knee-jerk reactions and chose to lower limits, while maybe the old limit was perfectly fine but never really enforced.



I was actually basing my comment on the number of reported accidents resulting in death or serious injury that the council report mentioned.
Not saying they were speed related.
3 times the national average is justification for some action to be taken and does give some justification for dropping the limit.
Not necessarily complete justification but some.

Whether speed is the only factor is anyone's guess, although probably a reasonable assumption that speed was a factor.
Whether excessive speed is also open to question.
As is the intention to reduce speed if speed is not actually the main issue.
It may be that speed enforcement would be a better answer.
Or quite possibly clearing verges and sight lines at junctions so that people like the Duke would be less likely to pull out of blind junctions into oncoming traffic.

But it is always difficult to argue against a speed limit reduction when the accident rate is high and this is coupled with fatalities and severe injuries.
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cp8759
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 21:26
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 20:33) *
But it is always difficult to argue against a speed limit reduction when the accident rate is high and this is coupled with fatalities and severe injuries.

My starting point is nothing should be criminalised if lesser measures could achieve the same result. If the accident rate could be adequately reduced by clearing verges, improving the road layout and installing a system of average speed cameras to enforce the NSL, those steps should be implemented first. It may well be that there are no further casualties, and those who safely and lawfully drive on that road at 60 can continue to do so unhindered.

If the road continues to have higher than average fatalities, only at that point should the speed limit be lowered, because it would have be shown that no lesser measures will suffice.


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Churchmouse
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 23:46
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:21) *
You would have thought the most sensible course of action would be to simply install average speed cameras and enforce the 60 mph limit. It's cheaper and could have been just as effective.

Although since there's currently no suggestion that the non-Royal party was exceeding the 60mph limit, perhaps the limit is too high for the road anyway?

And I'm sure the council was just about to lower the speed limit anyway, so their announcing it the day after (or was it the same day?) Prince Philip was involved in an accident there was purely coincidental...

I'm guessing that the non-Royal party "came out of nowhere"?

--Churchmouse
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typefish
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 02:26
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:21) *
You would have thought the most sensible course of action would be to simply install average speed cameras and enforce the 60 mph limit. It's cheaper and could have been just as effective.

Although since there's currently no suggestion that the non-Royal party was exceeding the 60mph limit, perhaps the limit is too high for the road anyway?


No, 60mph isn't too high for that road. Oddly enough, in the summer months you'd be happy to get above 30mph!

This was a plan that NCC had been wanting to effect for quite some time, sadly. The timing was purely coincidental
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DancingDad
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 08:34
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QUOTE (typefish @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 02:26) *
........This was a plan that NCC had been wanting to effect for quite some time, sadly. The timing was purely coincidental


Not a coincidence.
Just reading the opening article suggests it has been discussed many times but Philip has raised it to prominence instead of it being relegated.


@CP
I don't disagree with the view that other reasons should be dealt with first before dropping speed limits.
But given the choice between ongoing maintenance costs plus potential costs of improvement schemes no authority is going to ignore the peanuts it will cost to implement a TRO, put up some new signs and get some cameras in.
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Itchy Bootmore
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 13:15
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So.
when I first heard this, I wondered why the BBC were seemingly instantly getting in the remark about the Council looking at lowering the speed limit... a bit of pre-conception management by the press in case Phil The Greek was found in excess of the posted limit...??

In the event it seems that excess speed was not a factor: The driver of the other car involved has stated they were travelling at 50mph, (the press remarking this is 10mph under the limit - so I presume this is an unrestricted single carriageway road then) when The Greek pulled out in front of them. So failing to take proper observation then...

However, he has apparently caused an accident. So I presume that he will be prosecuted for causing this accident, possibly driving without due care and attention or summat, as A.N.Other driver would. Given of course, that there was a baby in the rear seat of the other car involved, which at this time appears to be blameless, and he is therefore lucky there were no KSI's.

Oh wait! It now seems he's been snapped driving without his seat belt and the photographic evidence passed to the Police, who have apparently "had a word" with him, within 48 hours of the accident ... which he seems to have caused.

Errrrrrrr... No.

Get him prosecuted and his licence taken off him. Oh wait.... apparently he doesn't have one??? Is that true??? So if true that would invalidate his insurance, wouldn't it? It all gets better.... I look forward to him being banned from driving like anyone else would be and a lovely few months at Her Majesty's Pleasure, like the scroats we see on Traffic Cops/Interceptors/Police -Camera-Action.... PR PR PR blah blah. dry.gif


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Ocelot
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 13:50
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If you ignore the histrionics in the article,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-66...said-sorry.html

Prince philip was not given a fixed penalty for driving without a seatbelt again.
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Fredd
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 16:22
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QUOTE (Itchy Bootmore @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 13:15) *
Oh wait.... apparently he doesn't have one??? Is that true??? So if true that would invalidate his insurance, wouldn't it? It all gets better.... I look forward to him being banned from driving like anyone else would be and a lovely few months at Her Majesty's Pleasure, like the scroats we see on Traffic Cops/Interceptors/Police -Camera-Action.... PR PR PR blah blah. dry.gif

Before you burst a blood vessel, he does have a driving licence. And when was the last time someone got locked up for months just for having no licence and insurance?


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ford poplar
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 01:00
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Not wishing to affect any Police investigation I am impressed a Kia managed to roll a Freelander.
As for the injured Kia passenger, I was taught the driver should not talk to anyone else involved for fear of appearing guilty.
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Redivi
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 06:02
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That was my understanding and insurance documents contain specific warnings not to admit liability
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DancingDad
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 07:46
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Another one here who would not apologise even if I knew it was 100% my fault.
Exchange details, polite and calm, take action such as phoning 999 if needed but apart from that, follow dictats from insurance and do or admit nuffink that could show liability.

Mind you, driving in full sight of the press without a seatbelt is not clever.
And a bunch of flowers and a get well card would have been better PR then blanking the other side.

As for all the press furore on 'er with the broken wrist considering compensation....duh?
In this day and age it is a non story, part of countless accident claims.

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Ocelot
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 19:51
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They had Nick Freeman on LBC this morning confirming that you shouldn't apologise or admit liability. He was actually quite funny in places.
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Itchy Bootmore
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 13:50
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 16:22) *
Before you burst a blood vessel, he does have a driving licence. And when was the last time someone got locked up for months just for having no licence and insurance?


HAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!! laugh.gif

As for getting locked up.... he should be for being an HRH - The Lizard King!!! biggrin.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Itchy Bootmore: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 13:52


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Ocelot
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 19:14
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QUOTE (Itchy Bootmore @ Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 13:50) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 16:22) *
Before you burst a blood vessel, he does have a driving licence. And when was the last time someone got locked up for months just for having no licence and insurance?


HAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!! laugh.gif

As for getting locked up.... he should be for being an HRH - The Lizard King!!! biggrin.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif


Someone at work said he might have detached his tail at the scene to make a quick getaway.
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Fredd
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 19:07
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QUOTE (Itchy Bootmore @ Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 13:50) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 16:22) *
Before you burst a blood vessel, he does have a driving licence. And when was the last time someone got locked up for months just for having no licence and insurance?


HAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!! laugh.gif

I guess I should amend this now, since he's bowed to the inevitable and voluntarily given up his licence. smile.gif


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