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FightBack Forums _ Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices _ Box junction fine advice
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 13:29
Post #1302812
What's people's advice on this fine I have had? My plate is mentioned in the letter but not in the picture, my wheel is ever so slightly on the box,
Posted by: BaggieBoy Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 13:35
Post #1302813
My advice would be to get this moved to the correct forum, i.e. "Council...". Press the "Report" button and ask a moderator to move it.
Posted by: 666 Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 13:36
Post #1302814
If your wheel is "ever so slightly" in the box, then a large chunk of car must be wholly within it. Wheels are irrelevant.
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 13:46
Post #1302816
Really? I thought it was the wheels that counted?
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 14:44
Post #1302830
Looking at that photo, I would suggest that any contravention would fall under the principal of De minimis but only the video will tell
Post up all of the PCN and get ant post the video
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 20:14
Post #1302893
http://www.viewmypcn.co.uk/Default.aspx?r=6419ae65c41c5784945e913010a7cc3e20f05715
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 20:32
Post #1302902
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 21:14)
http://www.viewmypcn.co.uk/Default.aspx?r=6419ae65c41c5784945e913010a7cc3e20f05715
Got a very good shot at de minimis. We need to see the PCN almost all YBJ pcn's have errors we can exploit
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 20:42
Post #1302903
.
Having trouble uploading it at the mo.
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 20:57
Post #1302904
There u go
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 21:06
Post #1302906
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 21:57)
There u go
Need to see all pages, have a read of this then try
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858
Posted by: stamfordman Sun, 23 Jul 2017 - 21:10
Post #1302907
+1 - I agree, a good shot at de minimis.
To post pics use a site such as Flickr and post the BBCode share links.
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 14:31
Post #1303069
.
There u go
Also in the video I am creeping forward ever so slightly don't actually stop
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 16:35
Post #1303116
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 15:31)
.
There u go
Also in the video I am creeping forward ever so slightly don't actually stop
there are two errors on the PCN that might help but want some other views as to the contravention, my view is that both amount of transgression and time it is de minimis
not likely the council will accept (with or without the technical bits) so might be better to keep that in the locker for this stage
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 17:23
Post #1303129
What do you suggest pastmybest???
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 18:08
Post #1303139
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 18:23)
What do you suggest pastmybest???
As per my reply to you in response to your PM. Go for it I think a good chance of winning. I would like input re the wording errors and whether to include at this stage or not
don't rush into a reply to the council post anything here first, we will help you finesse
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 18:17
Post #1303141
Thank you for your reply pastmybest, I feel I may be bamboozled with the terms and wording so I wouldn't know where to start!
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 18:27
Post #1303143
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 24 Jul 2017 - 19:17)
Thank you for your reply pastmybest, I feel I may be bamboozled with the terms and wording so I wouldn't know where to start!
we do,
Posted by: Helpme2 Tue, 25 Jul 2017 - 19:49
Post #1303482
Does anybody else have any views,advice regarding my fine
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Tue, 25 Jul 2017 - 20:12
Post #1303491
You have until the 2nd of August to preserve the discount, though if you are going to take this to adjudication it should not matter.
I will draft something for you on Thursday evening, as I will be a bit busy over the weekend
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 27 Jul 2017 - 08:20
Post #1303833
Okthat will be great pastmybest best as I haven't a clue where to start!
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Thu, 27 Jul 2017 - 21:59
Post #1304066
Not going to bother with the technical stuff as yet, but have tried to make it difficult to dismiss de minimis, whilst complying with the requirement to consider your representation
QUOTE
Representation against PCN number xxxxxx
VRM ab12 cde
Your name and address
I make this representation on the basis that if any stop within the controlled area occurred, it was so minor in both time and amount of incursion that the common law defence of de minimis non curat lex can be claimed.
This representation is the first stage in a legal process, it would be hoped by me, and I would contend expected, that this be given full consideration. That a contravention may have occurred is not the only qualifying criteria for the imposition of a penalty charge
Justice is rightly unwilling to rely exclusively on prosecutorial discretion to weed out cases undeserving of prosecution and punishment. The good judgment of prosecutors in eliminating trivial cases is necessary but not sufficient to the workings of the criminal law. There must be legal protection against convictions for conduct undeserving of punishment. And indeed there is. The judicial system is not plagued by a multitude of insignificant prosecutions for conduct that merely meets the technical requirements of "a crime" (e.g., theft of a penny) because prosecutorial discretion is effective and because the common law defence of de minimis non curat lex (the law does not care for small or trifling matters) is available to judges
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 28 Jul 2017 - 07:31
Post #1304104
Thank you pastmybest! Shall I send whole of that with the justice quote at bottom
Posted by: hcandersen Fri, 28 Jul 2017 - 08:20
Post #1304111
With respect, I wouldn't. What would be the purpose? How would you respond if you were in their shoes and someone who was asking you to exercise discretion gave you a lecture in this form?
You did stop - why you've posted that you didn't is baffling. The sequence of events has not yet been laid out, so I suggest you do because it makes life easier:
Entered the junction at *****
Moved forward and slowed to a crawl. Continued to creep forwards until stopped at *** with approx. *** feet of my car in the junction;
Moved forward and then stopped again at *** at which point *** feet of my car was in the junction.
Moved off at ***.
Other than for estimates of the length of your car in the box, the rest are objective data, all you need to do is extract them from the video.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 28 Jul 2017 - 13:18
Post #1304230
With deference to the view of HCA. " what would be the purpose" The council will reject a de minimis argument, they do not even understand that they should consider it. The quote or lecture
is more aimed at the adjudicator. who I am sure would agree with the sentiment that this should not be brought forward by the authorities
Posted by: Helpme2 Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 09:53
Post #1304423
This is going to be my effort to add to what pastmybest wrote, anything I should change?
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box. This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of deminis I think I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
Posted by: John U.K. Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 10:45
Post #1304433
QUOTE
Entered junction 19.24.26
The time of the alleged contravention on the PCN is 19:24 (=19:24:00)
At that time you were not in the box and could not have been in contravention.
N.B. Some Adjudicators have accepted this point, others have rejected it.
My argument is that if you arrive at 19:24:26 at a train atation for a train advertised to depart at 17:24 and find the trainhas departed you have no cause for complaint or action against the train company.
Posted by: Helpme2 Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 10:59
Post #1304442
John U.K. Are you sayin I shouldn't appeal then?
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 11:04
Post #1304444
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 11:59)
John U.K. Are you sayin I shouldn't appeal then?
no he is giving another argument as to why you should. I will do a re draft taking on board everything said by others, but it won't be til Sunday night
Posted by: Helpme2 Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 11:13
Post #1304448
What do u think to what I have wrote pastmybest?
Posted by: John U.K. Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 11:14
Post #1304449
QUOTE
John U.K. Are you sayin I shouldn't appeal then?
No, as PMB said, another point to include in your representations (not appeal yet - that is to tribunal).
Should it come to appeal, you need to consider the timing point carefully. I would not iappeal solely on that point, but if appealing, would include it.
But the choice is yours. Include it in your representations, and they may well fail to consider it, or muck up their response.
QUOTE
What do u think to what I have wrote pastmybest?
Take up PMB's kind offer to draft something. When is your deadline for submitting your representations?
Posted by: Helpme2 Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 11:49
Post #1304453
My deadline is 3rdaug. Yes I defo am intrested to see what pmb can draft up. I really feel the fine to be unfair for the circumstance
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sun, 30 Jul 2017 - 21:02
Post #1304753
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 12:49)
My deadline is 3rdaug. Yes I defo am intrested to see what pmb can draft up. I really feel the fine to be unfair for the circumstance
your 14 day deadline is the second. I have not forgotten just need an hour in the morning to finish up
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 31 Jul 2017 - 05:55
Post #1304775
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 30 Jul 2017 - 22:02)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Sat, 29 Jul 2017 - 12:49)
My deadline is 3rdaug. Yes I defo am intrested to see what pmb can draft up. I really feel the fine to be unfair for the circumstance
your 14 day deadline is the second. I have not forgotten just need an hour in the morning to finish up
Ok thank u pmb, very much appreciated!
Posted by: hcandersen Mon, 31 Jul 2017 - 07:33
Post #1304783
Your account looks fine in terms of clearly setting the scene and relying on de minimis.
I would not argue the issue of seconds on a PCN at this stage,if it were to get that far I'd leave this for adjudication to bolster a more substantive argument.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Mon, 31 Jul 2017 - 08:12
Post #1304796
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 31 Jul 2017 - 08:33)
Your account looks fine in terms of clearly setting the scene and relying on de minimis.
I would not argue the issue of seconds on a PCN at this stage,if it were to get that far I'd leave this for adjudication to bolster a more substantive argument.
I had put together a representation using all points, but upon reflection HCA is right the more technical aspects are best left til adjudication.
You can argue better in your own words than you can using mine, so use what you wrote in post 25 not along side mine but instead off
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 31 Jul 2017 - 08:54
Post #1304811
Ok thank you so much guys I have sent my reply and will keep you updated
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 09:38
Post #1312132
Follow up to me sending my email in to appeal against fine. Today I have had a letter thru the door stating I owe £195!!!!??? I was under the impression that if my appeal was rejected I would be offered a further 14 days to pay £65???
Posted by: Incandescent Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 09:59
Post #1312136
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:38)
Follow up to me sending my email in to appeal against fine. Today I have had a letter thru the door stating I owe £195!!!!??? I was under the impression that if my appeal was rejected I would be offered a further 14 days to pay £65???
They have issued you a Charge Certificate from the amount you say is on this letter, please confirm. Either they have sent out a rejection of your appeal, or have failed to do so. At this point in the process, you cannot appeal the CC, but now must wait for the Order for Recovery that means the debt is registered at the TEC at Northampton. You then can make a Statutory Declaration that you made reps but did not receive a reply. The matter will then revert to the PCN stage.
Neil B on this forum is up-to-speed on these things. I think once the SD is accepted by TEC, the matter has to be referred to the adjudicators.
No harm in trying to contact them to find out what has happened to your appeal. However, is the address on your V5 correct, because they will reply by letter not e-mail, so if your address is wrong, you won't have got the Rejection of Reps letter.
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:15
Post #1312139
Yes they have issued a charge certificate, I have had nothing back from them at all regarding my appeal. I am worried that if I do not pay the £195 it will go up more!? I thought appeal would get rejected and just pay the £65
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:17
Post #1312140
PCN says they reply by email unless post specified.
Check the address you sent to?
Any auto acknowledgement?
Any reply by e-mail? Junk folder?
Posted by: John U.K. Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:19
Post #1312142
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 11:15)
Yes they have issued a charge certificate, I have had nothing back from them at all regarding my appeal. I am worried that if I do not pay the £195 it will go up more!? I thought appeal would get rejected and just pay the £65
And the address on your V5 is your current address?
And if changed in last year date of change recorded on V5?
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:22
Post #1312145
The v5 is correct address, I put my address on the appeal email I sent. I recieved acknowledgement that my appeal email was received, I also checked my junk email regularly so didn't miss anything
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:37
Post #1312150
Ok.
So why are you worried?
Incandescent has explained the solution.
It's simple and automatic
What was the date of your e-mail?
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:45
Post #1312153
Sorry Neil I'm just new to this and understanding the terms and procedures is a little tricky, I emailed them on 31st july to which I got an acknowledgement they had recieved, that's the last I heard from them. So basically now I wait for an order of recovery (will that be a letter?) then I make a statory declaration and it will revert back to the pcn where I will get offered the original £65
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 11:07
Post #1312160
In these circumstances it will get referred to adjudicator
- at £130 - but that's good because robbing you of the discount they promised to re-offer is another winning appeal point to add later - you will get the chance.
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 11:12
Post #1312163
Ok Neil so I'm just waiting for an order of recovery to come through door next?
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 12:09
Post #1312176
Yes.
Tell us when it arrives.
If none in 3 weeks, tell us.
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 20:51
Post #1312352
This is the charge certificate I recieved https://ibb.co/eiomWk
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 23:36
Post #1312413
Ok, thanks.
So you have a while to wait.
Just keep track of time and keep us informed.
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 12:02
Post #1312675
Sent them this to find out what happen to my representation
I am writing this email in reply to a charge certificate that I have just recieved to which I believe in error and want a full response ASAP due to the stress it is causing me.
On the 14/7/17 I was alleged to have committed driving offence, the notice was served to me on the 20/7/17. I made a representation against this via email within the 14days on the 31/7/17 at 09:52 to which I had a generic email stating you had recieved my email. Your email stated you will be in touch on average 20days but sometimes longer. To this date 1/9/17 I have not received any information as to weather my appeal was or wasn't successful? On the 29/8/17 I recieved a charge certificate stating I now owe £195??? But in your original letter it states that if my representation is rejected I will be offered a further 14days at the reduced rate of £65. I have not been offered that . This needs sorting ASAP I have not received any information from u regarding my representation so I want to know why I have been issued a charge certificate.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 18:33
Post #1312940
I appreciate you are a it stressed, but don't be. The process is defined by law, so don't worry about TfL now the process has been c**ked up by them and is now out of their hands
Just keep an eye out for the OfR post when you get it or if you don't after about 21 days
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 19:06
Post #1315917
Been 17 days with no ofr so far
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 09:47
Post #1316887
Hey Neil b it's been 3weeks now no recovery letter?
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 10:35
Post #1316898
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 10:47)
Hey Neil b it's been 3weeks now no recovery letter?
The first day they could serve an OfR was 13/9.
So it's not really a worry yet.
The OfR allows you 21 days to make the Stat Dec.
Give ir a week.
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 11:26
Post #1316913
Ok thanks Neil just keeping u updated on the times like u said
Posted by: Neil B Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 20:09
Post #1318203
Whassup?
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 13:19
Post #1318555
Recieved a letter today asking for the £195 again. I haven't seen the letter myself as my partner opened it for me, will post a pic tonight
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 15:27
Post #1318583
https://ibb.co/fBsUW5
https://ibb.co/ee3Eyk
It says I did not make a representation against the first fine which I did, I recieved a generic reply from them sayin they recieved my email, that was the last I heard, never got the chance to pay at the discounted rate after rejection.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 16:04
Post #1318590
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 16:27)
https://ibb.co/fBsUW5
https://ibb.co/ee3Eyk
It says I did not make a representation against the first fine which I did, I recieved a generic reply from them sayin they recieved my email, that was the last I heard, never got the chance to pay at the discounted rate after rejection.
Phone and ask Have they issued an order for recovery? If so when, If not when will they. Nothing else
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 16:15
Post #1318592
Thanks PMB I have been trying to find a number to contact them on but can't, it's so frustrating not being able to talk to them yet still recieving letters! Only a charge certificate then the letter above
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 4 Oct 2017 - 05:42
Post #1320752
Is there a time limit to which they can send the ofr as it's been 21days?
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 20:58
Post #1322666
Still no OFR? Is there a time limit for them to serve it?
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 21:53
Post #1322690
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 21:58)
Still no OFR? Is there a time limit for them to serve it?
No might be worth giving them a call now. Ask only Have they issued the OfR? if so when? if not when will they?
Posted by: hcandersen Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 07:40
Post #1322726
OP, as we've got some time can we look at your reps which we've yet to see, and the response email. As regards the reps, we don't need a summary, this is not a document: you should post the reps themselves.
At present we're taking it on trust that your email was sent to the specified address in the correct format.
TfL's letter states that they did not receive reps within the 28-day period, so their cards are clear*: we just need to see your hand.
*Edit... just re-read their letter. Isn't it b******s. On the one hand they claim that reps were not made, which then forms the legal basis for serving the CC, and then they launch into a paragraph about one of 4 reasons applying.. and as far as I know under the legislation there are only 3! (perhaps it's been amended?). They're eejits and robots to boot.
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 09:55
Post #1322768
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 22:53)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 21:58)
Still no OFR? Is there a time limit for them to serve it?
No might be worth giving them a call now. Ask only Have they issued the OfR? if so when? if not when will they?
Trouble is PMB I cannot find a number to call anywhere, there's no numbers on the letters sent nor can I find one on the net
Posted by: Neil B Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 10:38
Post #1322782
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 10:55)
Trouble is PMB I cannot find a number to call anywhere, there's no numbers on the letters sent nor can I find one on the net
020 8496 3000
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 13:07
Post #1322837
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 11:38)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 10:55)
Trouble is PMB I cannot find a number to call anywhere, there's no numbers on the letters sent nor can I find one on the net
020 8496 3000
Thanks neilb I've tried that one before but you cannot talk to anybody about the cases. I have just emailed them asking for an update on my case and if they are issuing an OFR and when.
Posted by: Neil B Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 13:33
Post #1322841
What was the date of Charge Cert ?
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 13:51
Post #1322844
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 14:33)
What was the date of Charge Cert ?
28/08/17
Posted by: hcandersen Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 14:04
Post #1322848
And your reps exactly and the email, including the address to which it was sent??
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 14:09
Post #1322850
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:04)
And your reps exactly and the email, including the address to which it was sent??
Sorry what do you mean hcandersen?
Posted by: hcandersen Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:14
Post #1322863
We need to see the exact reps you sent and the email address to which they were sent.
This is the basis of your defence and yet we've not seen this evidence, all we've had is your assurances that these were compiled and sent as required and a summary of their contents. These would be front and centre of your evidence at adjudication, so pl post them here. There's no reason why they should not be compliant and I'm not suggesting otherwise, but you could be stripped bare at adjudication if they were not.
This is part of the evidence trail which starts with the NTO instructing the owner how to submit reps and what these must contain.
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:38
Post #1322866
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:48
Post #1322870
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:38)
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
All looks in order. Do you have an e mail acknowledgement of receipt ?
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:51
Post #1322872
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:48)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:38)
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
All looks in order. Do you have an e mail acknowledgement of receipt ?
It dissapeared off my phone but have it on computer.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:57
Post #1322875
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:51)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:48)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:38)
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
All looks in order. Do you have an e mail acknowledgement of receipt ?
It dissapeared off my phone but have it on computer.
Don't lose it. I suggest a screenshot
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:06
Post #1322878
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:57)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:51)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:48)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:38)
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
All looks in order. Do you have an e mail acknowledgement of receipt ?
It dissapeared off my phone but have it on computer.
Don't lose it. I suggest a screenshot
Will do after work
Posted by: Neil B Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 18:46
Post #1322921
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 17:06)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:57)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:51)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:48)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:38)
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
All looks in order. Do you have an e mail acknowledgement of receipt ?
It dissapeared off my phone but have it on computer.
Don't lose it. I suggest a screenshot
Will do after work
VERY important cos that will mean you pay nothing.
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 20:44
Post #1322962
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 19:46)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 17:06)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:57)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:51)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:48)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 16:38)
This was my rep I had my full name and address on it but have removed, was sent to wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
Representation fr22523811
Sk51fpf
Entered junction 19.24.26, traffic slowed to a crawl, I continued to creep foward until I stopped at 19.24.44 on the outer edge line of the box, at 19.24.47(3seconds) I continued to creep foward out of the box, This can be seen on video.i feel that for the for the small time I was stationary and the lack of incursion and obstruction I had on the workings of the box junction I feel that On the grounds of common law defence of deminimis Non curat lex can be claimed and and that I have a fair case for any fine to be cancelled.
All looks in order. Do you have an e mail acknowledgement of receipt ?
It dissapeared off my phone but have it on computer.
Don't lose it. I suggest a screenshot
Will do after work
VERY important cos that will mean you pay nothing.
I've done it!!! Screen shot, re saved and printed!
Posted by: Neil B Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 22:09
Post #1322991
Ok.
So now, if you want, you can further check where the OfR is or, rather,
if one is on the way.
The OfR is issued when, or shortly after, the debt is 'registered' with the Court (TEC).
You simply phone TEC and quote the PCN number.
If they don't recognise it the debt is not yet registered and no OfR issued yet.
If it has been, ask when.
01604 619450 0300 123 1059
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 10:22
Post #1323059
Right guys I think I may have got to the bottom of this which could be the end of the road for me?? On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭. Would I still stand any ground of appeal on the fact that I have tried to appeal, I did include my name and address so could have contacted me? Or is this the end and have to pay for my mistakes??
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 10:58
Post #1323069
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
Right guys I think I may have got to the bottom of this which could be the end of the road for me?? On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭. Would I still stand any ground of appeal on the fact that I have tried to appeal, I did include my name and address so could have contacted me? Or is this the end and have to pay for my mistakes??
IMO no The council will issue the OfR you will legitimately IMO file a WS to the effect that you appealed but received no response, the case will be set for adjudication.
The council could claim then that they did not know what the representations were for and it is up to the adjudicator to accept that or not. I would think not given they have your address and e mail
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:08
Post #1323074
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:58)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
Right guys I think I may have got to the bottom of this which could be the end of the road for me?? On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭. Would I still stand any ground of appeal on the fact that I have tried to appeal, I did include my name and address so could have contacted me? Or is this the end and have to pay for my mistakes??
IMO no The council will issue the OfR you will legitimately IMO file a WS to the effect that you appealed but received no response, the case will be set for adjudication.
The council could claim then that they did not know what the representations were for and it is up to the adjudicator to accept that or not. I would think not given they have your address and e mail
Ok PMB so still wait for the OFR , I can't believe I made such a silly mistake after all the help you guys are giving me!!!!
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:27
Post #1323080
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:08)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:58)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
Right guys I think I may have got to the bottom of this which could be the end of the road for me?? On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭. Would I still stand any ground of appeal on the fact that I have tried to appeal, I did include my name and address so could have contacted me? Or is this the end and have to pay for my mistakes??
IMO no The council will issue the OfR you will legitimately IMO file a WS to the effect that you appealed but received no response, the case will be set for adjudication.
The council could claim then that they did not know what the representations were for and it is up to the adjudicator to accept that or not. I would think not given they have your address and e mail
Ok PMB so still wait for the OFR , I can't believe I made such a silly mistake after all the help you guys are giving me!!!!
Have you contacted TEC (with the correct PCN number) as per Neil's advice
Posted by: Neil B Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:49
Post #1323090
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭.
Explain please.
What exactly did you mix up?
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:59
Post #1323097
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:49)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭.
Explain please.
What exactly did you mix up?
Hi neilb on my rep I put FR22523811 where it should have been FR25523811, all my other details were fine. They managed to send me a CC so they have address and so on. I just hope the adjudicator can see this as I have tried to follow procedure but made a mistake😭 I'm still tryin to get through to TEC but lines are busy
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:13
Post #1323105
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:59)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:49)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭.
Explain please.
What exactly did you mix up?
Hi neilb on my rep I put FR22523811 where it should have been FR25523811, all my other details were fine. They managed to send me a CC so they have address and so on. I just hope the adjudicator can see this as I have tried to follow procedure but made a mistake😭 I'm still tryin to get through to TEC but lines are busy
Got through to TEC ,It's not been registered yet .
Posted by: Neil B Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 19:03
Post #1323189
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:59)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 12:49)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 11:22)
On my original repsentation I got a number mixed up on my pcn code😭.
Explain please.
What exactly did you mix up?
Hi neilb on my rep I put FR22523811 where it should have been FR25523811, all my other details were fine. They managed to send me a CC so they have address and so on. I just hope the adjudicator can see this as I have tried to follow procedure but made a mistake😭
I'm not going to agree with PMB but I'm not going to disagree either.
The point is, this has to be your decision to make, based on your conscience.
The Statutory Declaration form PE3 allows you to state, amongst other choices, that you
'made
representations to the Council but received no reply'.
It is up to you to decide if you believe that to be a true statement.
Some might argue that it is not true because your reps were submitted quoting a non-existent PCN.
I make the following observations:
- Your reps
were received, as shown by the auto acknowledgement.
- It takes no working out at all for WF to realise the PCN number quoted is too old to be correct.
- It would have taken very little working out for them to realise the correct PCN number.
- What procedures, I wonder, do WF have for dealing with 'unidentified' representations received,
especially a) when they have enough info to contact and query with the sender, and
b) when they can identify it by VRM anyway (assuming you quoted that)?
- There was also ample time in which to query with the sender, being well inside the 28 days.
---
Let us know your decision and when the OfR arrives. There is one more thing you can do.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 19:14
Post #1323192
My thinking. is Up til today you believed that all was well. You made reps in good faith a small error excusable I would suggest particularly as the council have all your details
Neil is correct it is your choice as to whether you feel you can honestly file the WS. Can only the PCN number be used as an identifier. or are vrm e mail address and address enough?
Posted by: Neil B Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 19:23
Post #1323197
I have another point but let's get the OfR first.
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 20:19
Post #1323207
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 20:23)
I have another point but let's get the OfR first.
your the expert
Posted by: hcandersen Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 21:09
Post #1323214
Now you see the benefit of posting docs, not summaries!
But IMO the difference was not material neither have the authority suggested that this was why they did not issue a NOR
IMO, we're dancing on the head of a pin on this issue.
Based upon their letter - not the auto-acknowledgement which has no qualitative component - IMO you are perfectly entitled to submit your SD. Don't fret.
Posted by: Helpme2 Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 21:20
Post #1323217
Thanks guys for not shooting me down for making a silly error! I am hoping that I can atleast revert back to the discounted £65 fee on the bases that I followed the procedures set out and tried to comply but obviously made and error in pcn number. I agree they could have contacted me the reg and my address was included so wouldn't have took a lot to work out. Neilb I do believe I made reps which were recieved by the council but went unanswered. I'm going to wait for OFR which can come any time according to TEC and go from there I guess.
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 22:09)
Now you see the benefit of posting docs, not summaries!
But IMO the difference was not material neither have the authority suggested that this was why they did not issue a NOR
IMO, we're dancing on the head of a pin on this issue.
Based upon their letter - not the auto-acknowledgement which has no qualitative component - IMO you are perfectly entitled to submit your SD. Don't fret.
I agree totally with you hcandersen about posting up docs!!!! I wish I did, if I ever get in this situation again I will, this is my first time, rookie mistake!
Posted by: Helpme2 Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 09:08
Post #1326054
Spoke to TEC again today, still not registered with them, a woman informed me that the councils don't have to register it with them always? So I have no idea when I may recieved the OFR , weather I should contact council again to ask them or just leave it?
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 23:50
Post #1326352
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 10:08)
Spoke to TEC again today, still not registered with them, a woman informed me that the councils don't have to register it with them always? So I have no idea when I may recieved the OFR , weather I should contact council again to ask them or just leave it?
Weekly calls to tec if they leave it to long to register, unfairness comes into play once tec advise it's been registered you can download the forms and do the WS but come back here first DO NOT think to circumvent the system It will cost you dearly
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 07:03
Post #1326360
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 00:50)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 10:08)
Spoke to TEC again today, still not registered with them, a woman informed me that the councils don't have to register it with them always? So I have no idea when I may recieved the OFR , weather I should contact council again to ask them or just leave it?
Weekly calls to tec if they leave it to long to register, unfairness comes into play once tec advise it's been registered you can download the forms and do the WS but come back here first DO NOT think to circumvent the system It will cost you dearly
Thanks PMB I wouldn't circumvent this, it's been 2months since the CC was issued ? Yes will defo come back here b4 filling in anything!
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 08:28
Post #1326390
It's been clear for ages that the various legislation should impose strict time limits on
the progression of cases by enforcement authorities.
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:20
Post #1326414
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:28)
It's been clear for ages that the various legislation should impose strict time limits on
the progression of cases by enforcement authorities.
Yes neilb seems unfair that us public have to follow timescales yet these authorities don't?
I explained my situation to TEC to two different operators both advised me to contact council to see if they will reissue from the start again due to my error, the fact that I did follow there guidelines before they register it with TEC
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:23
Post #1326416
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 10:20)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:28)
It's been clear for ages that the various legislation should impose strict time limits on
the progression of cases by enforcement authorities.
Yes neilb seems unfair that us public have to follow timescales yet these authorities don't?
I explained my situation to TEC to two different operators both advised me to contact council to see if they will reissue from the start again due to my error, the fact that I did follow there guidelines before they register it with TEC
STFU as regards that error read again HCA's post ALL you must do is keep regular contact with TEC as to whether the debt has been registered or not. NOTHING ELSE.
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:26
Post #1326417
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 10:23)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 10:20)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 09:28)
It's been clear for ages that the various legislation should impose strict time limits on
the progression of cases by enforcement authorities.
Yes neilb seems unfair that us public have to follow timescales yet these authorities don't?
I explained my situation to TEC to two different operators both advised me to contact council to see if they will reissue from the start again due to my error, the fact that I did follow there guidelines before they register it with TEC
STFU as regards that error read again HCA's post ALL you must do is keep regular contact with TEC as to whether the debt has been registered or not. NOTHING ELSE.
THANKS PMB I'm just a first timer! You guys are the experts! Regular calls to TEC it is!
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 9 Nov 2017 - 11:15
Post #1330231
Spoke to TEC, still not registered!
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 11:20
Post #1339628
Spoke to TEC yet again still not registered! This is a joke! We have to stick to timescales yet the councils can take as long as they want!
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:06
Post #1339649
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 11:20)
Spoke to TEC yet again still not registered! This is a joke! We have to stick to timescales yet the councils can take as long as they want!
not running back through the thread, but what was the date of the CC. After about 3 months it is getting into the unfair as a breach of your right to a timely trial under ECHR article 6
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:13
Post #1339652
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:06)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 11:20)
Spoke to TEC yet again still not registered! This is a joke! We have to stick to timescales yet the councils can take as long as they want!
not running back through the thread, but what was the date of the CC. After about 3 months it is getting into the unfair as a breach of your right to a timely trial under ECHR article 6
CC was the 28th August
Posted by: PASTMYBEST Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:20
Post #1339655
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:13)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:06)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 11:20)
Spoke to TEC yet again still not registered! This is a joke! We have to stick to timescales yet the councils can take as long as they want!
not running back through the thread, but what was the date of the CC. After about 3 months it is getting into the unfair as a breach of your right to a timely trial under ECHR article 6
CC was the 28th August
So allowing for your time to action it just about 3 months, You have no real choice other than to wait for the OfR but be content that when this does get to adjudication, another string has been added to your bow. Don't chase the council just keep doing regular checks with TEC
Posted by: Helpme2 Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:23
Post #1339659
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:20)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:13)
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 12:06)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Thu, 14 Dec 2017 - 11:20)
Spoke to TEC yet again still not registered! This is a joke! We have to stick to timescales yet the councils can take as long as they want!
not running back through the thread, but what was the date of the CC. After about 3 months it is getting into the unfair as a breach of your right to a timely trial under ECHR article 6
CC was the 28th August
So allowing for your time to action it just about 3 months, You have no real choice other than to wait for the OfR but be content that when this does get to adjudication, another string has been added to your bow. Don't chase the council just keep doing regular checks with TEC
Ok PMB thanks for the continuing help!
Posted by: Helpme2 Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 12:52
Post #1344515
Right guys after manny many months I finally recieved my order for recovery!
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 09:27
Post #1345034
Right guys I finally recieved my OFR after many moths of waiting! Now looking for any advice on filling it out, it looks pretty straight foward but wanted to ask. Quick recap..
Offence took place 14/7/17
Date of notice 20/7/17
Representation made 31/7/17
No reply
Cc issued 28/8/17
4months later recieved OFR
Half way through the battle I discovered that I had got two numbers mixed up on my representation but everything else was there, all my details , name address reg so easily traceable.
So basically I am going to tick the did not recieve rejection notice? Also it's a £5 fee to get a solicitor to sign for me?
Thanks
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:11
Post #1345103
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 09:27)
Also it's a £5 fee to get a solicitor to sign for me?
It's not a fee for just signing: You will swear on oath before the notary.
- but it is free at your local County Ct. (appt needed probably).
e-mail the fully sworn form when done.
tec@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
It would help us to see the OfR.
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:42
Post #1345118
https://ibb.co/nP3Fbm
https://ibb.co/mAzowm
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:52
Post #1345124
Just noting, as an aside, that it's an unlawful OfR.
Could add it to appeal later.
---
What will you put in 'reasons' box?
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:59
Post #1345126
What do you mean aside? In the reasons I was just going to put that I made a representation but did not recieve a letter of rejection?
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:05
Post #1345129
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:59)
In the reasons I was just going to put that I made a representation but did not recieve a letter of rejection?
Ok; box is largely defunct anyway.
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 12:59)
What do you mean aside?
As a noun: A further issue we can potentially use but an 'aside' as not immediately important.
Just out of curiosity, does the envelope even have a "postmark" ?
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:10
Post #1345136
Yes Neil
https://ibb.co/fJP2p6
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:11
Post #1345137
Keep it.
That's even funnier.
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:15
Post #1345142
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:11)
Keep it.
That's even funnier.
Something I missed???
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:31
Post #1345151
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:15)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:11)
Keep it.
That's even funnier.
Something I missed???
Get the application in and there'll be plenty of time to discuss points of appeal later.
I originally said 'as an aside' because I didn't want to detract from more obvious appeal points that might
already have been discussed earlier in this protracted thread.
Contrary to what some might think, I don't always take my own input too seriously: Just throwing matters up for discussion.
Fighting a PCN on late stage docs being unlawful is unusual and largely untested; we rarely need to and rarely see
such docs anyway.
That said, if we need it later, an adjudicator would be hard pressed to dismiss arguments that the OfR is unlawful, imo.
Posted by: Helpme2 Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:33
Post #1345152
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:31)
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:15)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:11)
Keep it.
That's even funnier.
Something I missed???
Get the application in and there'll be plenty of time to discuss points of appeal later.
I originally said 'as an aside' because I didn't want to detract from more obvious appeal points that might
already have been discussed earlier in this protracted thread.
Contrary to what some might think, I don't always take my own input too seriously: Just throwing matters up for discussion.
Fighting a PCN on late stage docs being unlawful is unusual and largely untested; we rarely need to and rarely see
such docs anyway.
That said, if we need it later, an adjudicator would be hard pressed to dismiss arguments that the OfR is unlawful, imo.
Ok Neil so I should crack on and fill the form out saying that I did not receive a letter of rejection
Posted by: Neil B Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:54
Post #1345165
Yes!
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:24
Post #1349117
Latest update, I've sent my PE3 statutory declaration in and it's been recieved by TEC .
https://ibb.co/f2LppG
What's the next step now guys? Will the council contact me?
Posted by: Neil B Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:38
Post #1349122
Yes.
Posted by: Helpme2 Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:42
Post #1349123
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:38)
Yes.
Ok thanks Neil b, I will await there contact. Another 4months no doubt!
Posted by: Neil B Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 11:50
Post #1349679
QUOTE (Helpme2 @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:42)
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 16:38)
Yes.
Ok thanks Neil b, I will await there contact. Another 4months no doubt!
It won't be long: They are under adjudicators 'directions' now.
The Tribunal has issued Councils with specific guidance on how to handle from now on.
Basically -
If they are claiming not to have received your reps, they will ask you to send in again and respond
as if in time; accepting or rejecting.
If they did receive and claim to have issued a rejection then they will repeat it, leaving you to
decide if you want to take it to Tribunal.
That's the theory anyway.
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:05
Post #1354968
SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!REICIEVED letter the council have given up! Thank you so much guys , special thanks to PASTMYBEST and NEILB, kept me goin thru this! Just proof that the councils will try anything to get you to pay, some of the letters sounded quite final with the mentioning of bailiffs and so on. But as long as you keep up your end on deadlines and so on it's always worth a try!
https://ibb.co/i2w9vc
Posted by: Helpme2 Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:10
Post #1354976
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:07)
THAAAAAAAANKS👍🏻
Posted by: Neil B Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 11:42
Post #1355025
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