French violation Options

[coffee pot]

Slightly to my surprise, I have been sent a 'violation notice' from France. It alleges that I was exceeding the speed limit through the Tullins tunnel 110kph (68mph) on the A43 autoroute and they claim I was doing 118kph (73mph). I know that it is highly unlikely that such a small excess would attract attention of any sort in the UK, but they set their own rules. As it happens, I still have high quality dashcam footage of the journey and can see no evidence of a camera where they claim it is, although there is supposed to be one somewhere around there. http://english.controleradar.org/rhone-alp...eed-cameras.php There certainly is no flash on my (4k) footage. If it was in the tunnel, I can't query the speed as the GPS stops working, of course. They want €45.

However, my question concerns the delay in notifying me. I know that in the UK if an NIP arrives more than 2 weeks after the offence (with some caveats about hire cars and so on) it is invalid. The date was 25th July, the notice is dated 12 October and the letter franked 17th October. It is written in English, although clearly non-native and quite difficult to understand.

Is there a statute of limitation in France? How do they get round the EU ruling that a criminal charge must be notified promptly?

This post has been edited by coffee pot: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 - 08:51

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[The Rookie]

100kph is 62mph.....

So you were in your own UK registered car?

Baroudeur is the resident expert on French tickets, no doubt be along soon.

[coffee pot]

Apologies, 110kph. Edited. Yes, in a UK car.

[baroudeur]

Slightly to my surprise, I have been sent a 'violation notice' from France. It alleges that I was exceeding the speed limit through the Tullins tunnel 110kph (68mph) on the A43 autoroute and they claim I was doing 118kph (73mph). I know that it is highly unlikely that such a small excess would attract attention of any sort in the UK, but they set their own rules. As it happens, I still have high quality dashcam footage of the journey and can see no evidence of a camera where they claim it is, although there is supposed to be one somewhere around there. http://english.controleradar.org/rhone-alp...eed-cameras.php There certainly is no flash on my (4k) footage. If it was in the tunnel, I can't query the speed as the GPS stops working, of course. They want €45.

However, my question concerns the delay in notifying me. I know that in the UK if an NIP arrives more than 2 weeks after the offence (with some caveats about hire cars and so on) it is invalid. The date was 25th July, the notice is dated 12 October and the letter franked 17th October. It is written in English, although clearly non-native and quite difficult to understand.

Is there a statute of limitation in France? How do they get round the EU ruling that a criminal charge must be notified promptly?

Motoring penalties in France are handled by a central office in Rennes who process UK registered vehicles in batches with DVLA to obtain registered keeper details hence the delay. You refer to a letter so do you have two documents because the Violation Notice is easy to understand? There is no "statute of limitation" regarding the issue of such notices unless you wish to challenge it in a French court. If you do not name another driver French legislation provides for the registered keeper to be liable.

If you provide the camera location exactly as shown on the Notice I can probably provide a photo of the camera.

The process will continue and if you do not pay a second Violation Notice will be issued with an increased penalty followed by a third and then a court hearing in your absence. Points will be allocated to a 'ghost licence' (permis virtual) in your name.

There will be no follow up in the UK but there may be a very slight chance of the outstanding penalty being revealed if you get stopped on a subsequent visit to France.

Paying €45 online by card will end the matter

How to pay

Penalty scale

[coffee pot]

Thank you. I have a total of 3 documents. I would actually have preferred them in French rather than the stilted English, but I know why they have to send them in English.

So, should they so choose, the authorities could send one of these 20 years later? I'm not saying that they necessarily will, more that it is surprising that any charge can lie on file for so long, as I say bearing in mind the EU ruling about promptness.

The camera location is given as: A43 à VEREL-DE-MONTBEL, tunnel de Dullin (PR/PK 72+880), sens Chambery vers Lyon. I think it must actually be in the tunnel.

[cp8759]

So, should they so choose, the authorities could send one of these 20 years later?

Well obviously not, as the European Court of Human Rights has held that such matters must be dealt with with reasonable promptness. However contesting a French notice would involve the French courts (you can only go to the ECHR once you've exhausted domestic remedies), so realistically I would suggest you either ignore it and accept that the French authorities will impose a penalty that they may or may not be able to collect (depending on whether you're ever stopped by French police), or pay the 45 euros.

[baroudeur]

Thank you. I have a total of 3 documents. I would actually have preferred them in French rather than the stilted English, but I know why they have to send them in English.

So, should they so choose, the authorities could send one of these 20 years later? I'm not saying that they necessarily will, more that it is surprising that any charge can lie on file for so long, as I say bearing in mind the EU ruling about promptness.

The camera location is given as: A43 à VEREL-DE-MONTBEL, tunnel de Dullin (PR/PK 72+880), sens Chambery vers Lyon. I think it must actually be in the tunnel.

The charge doesn't 'lie on file' and the French motoring offences system is extrememly efficent being based at one location dealing with the whole France. The process has started and the delay was caused by obtaining your details from DVLA. The process will continue and the Violation Notice gives details of the timings involved for the next stage.

I am puzzled by the documents other than the Violation Notice so it would be helpful you indicate exactly what they are or, preferably, post images suitably redacted.

The camera is just as you exit the tunnel HERE

Procedure of penalty tickets in English HERE

Edit: No flash!

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 - 18:02

[coffee pot]

I seem to have a minute allowance for uploading, so here are a few:  image_043.pdf ( 516.77K ) Number of downloads: 85
 image_042.pdf ( 208.09K ) Number of downloads: 76
[attachment=
72574:image_044.pdf]

Incidentally, I have found the camera on my original video but it took a lot of image enhancement even to see it, and yes, no flash.

This post has been edited by coffee pot: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 - 18:13

Attached File(s)

 image_044.pdf ( 874.58K ) Number of downloads: 52

 

[The Rookie]

You have a small allowance, you didn’t read the FAQ, files and images shouldn’t ideally be hosted in this site.

[coffee pot]

You're right, I didn't. That's because I didn't have a question - I was asked to post pictures so I did.

[baroudeur]

You're right, I didn't. That's because I didn't have a question - I was asked to post pictures so I did.

Doucement svp.

The documents are part the Violation Notice package.

You were surprised to receive a speeding ticket although you were speeding by French standards even with a 5% tolerance.

You now have the choice of paying €45 within the stipulated time or ignoring the notice and allowing the matter to proceed through the French system - which it will.

By any standard the English translation is quite acceptable for the purpose intended.

Any more help needed?

[coffee pot]

Ca va. Merci bien; c'est un tas de caca mais que pouvez-vous faire? Je payerai.

[Lodesman]

Probably for the best in the end.

[baroudeur]

Ca va. Merci bien; c'est un tas de caca mais que pouvez-vous faire? Je payerai.

Une décision la plus simple et honnête