Help needed PCN for parking on the narrow road. |
Help needed PCN for parking on the narrow road. |
Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 10:37
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 20 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,500 |
Hello everyone!
I’ve been giving the PCN on the 18th of April in London, it is Dagenham area. Contravention is: Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of the a road other than a carriageway. But there are no any options as the road will be blocked by the parked cars. The street is very narrow. I’ve parked on the close road. And all the resident’s cars and others cars on that close road and main road park on the footpath. I know the Rule 244 of the Highway Code states: “You MUST NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement in London, and should not do so elsewhere unless signs permit it.” But it’s obviously if you park your vehicle on the road it will be not passage for another cars and in case of emergency vehicles? Even there is marked space for the disabled is quite narrow. And you can see (on the photo) it means you will be able to park your vehicle just if you will be part on the footpath. I’ve attached photos. I would really appreciate any suggestions in my case. I think it is unfairly as all cars along the street stay on the footpath. Thank you very much in advance. Unfortunately the photos don’t load. Here is a link for the pictures https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/195d...B1LD8_DEB50ofyj This post has been edited by Aven: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 15:44 |
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Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 10:37
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Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 11:12
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,905 Joined: 11 Jul 2010 Member No.: 38,904 |
Post up all sides of the PCN too, obscuring your name and address.
Interesting case...I'll be interested to see what others say. |
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Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 11:47
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 20 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,500 |
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Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 12:37
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Forget this side road, look at the surrounding area!
It is clearly, either de jure or de facto, a footway parking area. The footway has been strengthened and is of a uniform construction in several, lengthy, adjoining roads. In addition, there are marked so-called 'Disabled' parking places either wholly or partly on the footway. OP, given the widespread footway parking, is there anything else about your parking in the day which might have tipped the balance? |
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Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 12:41
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Post the council's pics if not them in your first post.
you can put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like. |
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Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 19:00
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I agree we need to see the council photos, however IMO the council is estopped from enforcing at this location.
2008: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Agnes+G...0.1322443?hl=en 2009: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Agnes+G...0.1322443?hl=en 2012: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Agnes+G...0.1322443?hl=en 2014: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Agnes+G...0.1322443?hl=en 2015: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Agnes+G...0.1322443?hl=en 2018: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Agnes+G...0.1322443?hl=en After 11 years obviously residents have a legitimate expectation that parking in this manner is at least tolerated. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 22:06
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
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Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 07:47
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
? IMO, a 'convention' as described here cannot exist when one of the parties acts for the first time, the context is not the same. Convention here is similar to 'custom and practice', but in the OP's case they had no knowledge of any practice on the part of the council other than on the day in question.
However, after the fact analysis bolsters on the day assumption in this case as seen in the GSVs. IMO, the OP must include the surrounding area... On the day in question I parked in ** after having arrived via ** and *** where it was absolutely clear that parking on the footway was a fact. Nothing about the situation in *** led me to believe anything other than that the whole area was one where parking on the footway was encouraged and accepted by the council, one only has to look at the evidence of footway construction and vehicles parked thereon to see that this is an objective reality. |
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Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 18:33
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
hcandersen I would expand your draft slightly: the subjective views or knowledge of Aven are irrelevant, and the law is the same for everyone: it cannot be right that you can rely on a legitimate expectation defence if you happen to be a resident, but not if you're a visitor. What if a resident says "yeah it's fine to park on the pavement, we've done it for years with no problems"?
IMO if a resident can rely on a legitimate expectation defence, so can anyone else. -------------- On the day in question I parked in ** after having arrived via ** and *** where it was absolutely clear that parking on the footway was a fact. Nothing about the situation in *** led me to believe anything other than that the whole area was one where parking on the footway was encouraged and accepted by the council, one only has to look at the evidence of footway construction and vehicles parked thereon to see that this is an objective reality. I have since learnt that footway parking is a long-standing practice at this location, as evidenced by the photo captures form Google Street View in 2008, 2009, 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2018: All the captures were made on seemingly random days which are utterly beyond the control either of myself or of the council, in this regard Google can be considered to be a wholly independent witness. Google's evidence confirms that on each occasion when their car happened to drive by, there was a large number of vehicles parked on the pavement. It is self-evident that the council has tolerated this conduct for a period of over a decade with no enforcement action. In the circumstances, and absent any warning that enforcement is to resume, motorists are entitled to rely on a legitimate expectation that the footway parking ban will not be enforced. While I accept that expectation has been brought to an end by the PCN that has been issued to me, nonetheless it existed at the time when I parked and it follows that the alleged contravention did not occur. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 22:12
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
My draft means legitimate expectation.
The officers wouldn't know legitimate expectation from a hole in the head. Neither would the average motorist. My draft is therefore simply a plain English recounting of the facts and assumptions made by the OP. I don't see where residents come into this from the OP's perspective. Frankly whether they were residents' cars or not is not the issue, it's that there is accepted wholesale parking on the footway. And that what was apparent on the day can be further evidenced by reference to historical GSVs. |
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Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 12:43
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
My draft means legitimate expectation. The officers wouldn't know legitimate expectation from a hole in the head. True, but we know the council will reject no matter what we say. However, adjudicators like cases where the motorists makes the same consistent argument from beginning to end, and we might even get a failure to consider. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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