Council Car Park Closed during Lockdown |
Council Car Park Closed during Lockdown |
Thu, 21 May 2020 - 13:35
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
On 6th May I parked in a council car park in Townley Park, Burnley. On the road leading up to the car park there was a “Road Closed Ahead” sign. When I got to the car park a few of the bays had cones stopping people parking in them, but quite a few were free. So I parked in one of the free ones. I went to the machine to pay and it had a bin bag over it taped up. So I presumed I could park for free. Anyway about 30 minutes later I came back to my car and it had a ticket on it saying “car park closed”. There was no signage up anywhere saying the car park had closed (see photos). Anyway I have done an informal appeal on the ticket and they have rejected it, saying there was adequate signage. Just wondering if it’s worth going all the way with an appeal? Or do they always find in councils favour.
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Thu, 21 May 2020 - 13:35
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Thu, 21 May 2020 - 13:40
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Let's see the PCN, your challenge and their rejection, all the right way up and readable.
Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited. |
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Thu, 21 May 2020 - 14:43
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#3
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Another daytripper!
Anyhow, the Parking Places Order is here:- https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...urnley/BE26.pdf I have had a quick read through and didn't spot anything about car park closure or parking suspension-----needs to be checked properly. IMO they cannot impose the contravention given unless it's backed up by the Order. Mick |
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Thu, 21 May 2020 - 16:00
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
Let's see the PCN, your challenge and their rejection, all the right way up and readable. Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited. OK here they are:- https://ibb.co/9tT5RyD https://ibb.co/cTKwHrq https://ibb.co/d5sZ8Kf https://ibb.co/NxZFN7v Thanks for looking. Informal appeal was done online.. This post has been edited by Spud1967: Fri, 22 May 2020 - 14:32 |
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Fri, 22 May 2020 - 14:34
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
OK here they are:-
https://ibb.co/9tT5RyD https://ibb.co/cTKwHrq https://ibb.co/d5sZ8Kf https://ibb.co/NxZFN7v Thanks for looking. Informal appeal was done online.. |
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Fri, 22 May 2020 - 15:22
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
They say there were signs at the entrance - plural - informing you the car park was closed.
So were there? |
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Fri, 22 May 2020 - 15:41
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
No just a sign saying "Road Ahead Closed" you can see it in one of my photos on opening post.
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Fri, 22 May 2020 - 16:04
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
No just a sign saying "Road Ahead Closed" you can see it in one of my photos on opening post. Can we see all of the council photos please. They are the evidence The off street order does not create an offence of parking when closed, but then if its closed is it a car park governed by the order? And wtf are they doing enforcing this https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtBHPhdJdppVyGhqo4-...Ck3RaY?e=hM6m45 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 22 May 2020 - 17:59
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
No just a sign saying "Road Ahead Closed" you can see it in one of my photos on opening post. Can we see all of the council photos please. They are the evidence The off street order does not create an offence of parking when closed, but then if its closed is it a car park governed by the order? And wtf are they doing enforcing this https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtBHPhdJdppVyGhqo4-...Ck3RaY?e=hM6m45 The only photo's I have got from the council are the ones on the back of the informal appeal rejection letter. More close up view here:- https://ibb.co/wdc4vnW I can't see how this can be legal if there is no signage up to say it's closed. The sign in the car park says Monday to Sunday 8am - 10pm. Ticket was issued at 6.40pm. |
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Tue, 26 May 2020 - 12:53
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
So just wait for the Notice to Owner, I don't think the council has a case to be honest. In the meantime please check your V5C to make sure the address is up to date.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 08:12
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
So just wait for the Notice to Owner, I don't think the council has a case to be honest. In the meantime please check your V5C to make sure the address is up to date. Ok thanks. The notice to owner has arrived. See links below:- https://ibb.co/b77jmj6 https://ibb.co/55238T2 https://ibb.co/xXRFJkS https://ibb.co/9rr5pVx https://ibb.co/wWVhCLh Which box should I tick? This post has been edited by Spud1967: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 09:03 |
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Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 08:25
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
Any chance anybody can have a quick look, regarding what I should do next?
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Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 10:58
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
Any chance anybody can have a quick look, regarding what I should do next?
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Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 18:28
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Here's a quick draft:
------------------ Dear Burnley Borough Council, The PCN is not sustainable for two reasons: Firstly, there were no signs indicating the car park was closed. In the absence of any signage informing drivers that the car park was closed, the contravention is not made out. Secondly, the Traffic Regulation Order, specifically the Burnley Borough Council (Off Street Parking Places) Order 2014 does not include any powers to close a car park, nor does it provide that it is a contravention to park in a car park that is closed. As no provision of the order has been infringed, again the contravention is not made out. For each of these reasons the PCN must be cancelled. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 08:19
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
Here's a quick draft: ------------------ Dear Burnley Borough Council, The PCN is not sustainable for two reasons: Firstly, there were no signs indicating the car park was closed. In the absence of any signage informing drivers that the car park was closed, the contravention is not made out. Secondly, the Traffic Regulation Order, specifically the Burnley Borough Council (Off Street Parking Places) Order 2014 does not include any powers to close a car park, nor does it provide that it is a contravention to park in a car park that is closed. As no provision of the order has been infringed, again the contravention is not made out. For each of these reasons the PCN must be cancelled. Brillant, thanks for that. Regarding the second point though, surely they are allowed to close there own car park if necessary? Should I include my photos of the car park at this stage? |
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Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 10:45
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 6 Sep 2013 Member No.: 65,019 |
Here's a quick draft: ------------------ Dear Burnley Borough Council, The PCN is not sustainable for two reasons: Firstly, there were no signs indicating the car park was closed. In the absence of any signage informing drivers that the car park was closed, the contravention is not made out. Secondly, the Traffic Regulation Order, specifically the Burnley Borough Council (Off Street Parking Places) Order 2014 does not include any powers to close a car park, nor does it provide that it is a contravention to park in a car park that is closed. As no provision of the order has been infringed, again the contravention is not made out. For each of these reasons the PCN must be cancelled. Just wanted to thank you for your post. The ticket was cancelled on the formal appeal. Thanks again you lot do a brilliant job. Would be happy to make a donation towards the cost of running this site if it helps. |
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Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 10:52
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
Great, another successful outcome.
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