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PCN - response from council taken over 4 months
GSTAR
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 21:25
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I received a PCN from Manchester City Council for overstaying by 13 mins on a metered parking space.

I have tried to pay the fine (£25 reduced charge) online but I am getting an error message saying "Cannot check Account details".

I then tried their automated payment line and the message I got said "your account has been disabled".

This has happened two days in a row now. I have definitely entered the PCN number correctly (if I enter an incorrect number it says reference number not valid).

Does anyone know what the issue is? Do I need to contact the council to make them aware of the issue? I don't want it to go over 14 days and then have to pay the full amount.
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post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 21:25
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cp8759
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 21:31
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You could send them a cheque in the post, just make sure you get a free certificate of posting from the post office.


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GSTAR
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 19:38
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The thing is, I'd obviously rather not pay if the ticket for some reason has been cancelled? I had just got back to my car as I was being ticketed, I had a chat with the warden to explain I had a meeting which had ran late, I asked if the ticket could be cancelled since it had not yet been placed on the windscreen, they advised that the ticket has nonetheless been issued therefore cannot be cancelled.

So I'm just wondering whether they had managed to cancel the ticket somehow?

Anyhow I've tried two methods of paying, both of which have not worked. Sending a cheque is a bit inconvenient - in fact I don't even know where my cheque book is! Paying in person at the council office is again inconvenient and I would probably need to take time out of work to do that.

Has anyone else ever had this problem before?
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hcandersen
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:47
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OP, you’re trying it on. You’ve had an error message and now hope you can build a defence on this despite having tried two separate methods to actually pay the penalty. And as for not knowing where you cheque book might be!! Yeah.

Anyway, back to the issue.

Were the mistakes yours or theirs? We don’t know because we don’t know what you were required to enter and what you actually entered.

If the penalty has been cancelled then the website will show this.

Talking of which...the PCN pl, and their photos.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:59
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I would call the contact centre and ask to speak to someone in PCN payments.

Until recently Manchester had an email and phone number for parking dept on the website - I think they are in a mess and don't want anyone messing with them.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 21:13
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cp8759
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 15:55
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QUOTE (GSTAR @ Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:38) *
The thing is, I'd obviously rather not pay if the ticket for some reason has been cancelled?

If you're ticket has been cancelled, they'll return your payment. There's recently been a similar case where the adjudicator basically said that because the motorist could have paid by post but didn't, he had no excuse for not paying and he lost the appeal.


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stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 17:15
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Quite a few bank accounts no longer operate or send out cheque books. I haven't written a cheque from either my personal or business bank account for 5 years or so and only paid in one or two in that time.
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cp8759
post Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 16:32
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 18:15) *
Quite a few bank accounts no longer operate or send out cheque books. I haven't written a cheque from either my personal or business bank account for 5 years or so and only paid in one or two in that time.

Most banks won't issue a cheque book by default but will provide one free of charge if they are asked. In any event you can get a postal order from the Post Office. I don't think the OP can argue it's impossible for him to pay, at least not at this stage.


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DancingDad
post Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 16:39
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 17:32) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 18:15) *
Quite a few bank accounts no longer operate or send out cheque books. I haven't written a cheque from either my personal or business bank account for 5 years or so and only paid in one or two in that time.

Most banks won't issue a cheque book by default but will provide one free of charge if they are asked. In any event you can get a postal order from the Post Office. I don't think the OP can argue it's impossible for him to pay, at least not at this stage.

Banks will still issue a counter cheque if asked but postal order is the easier way, just ask for one when you go in to post payment and pop it into the envelope.
Unfortunately, unless you can detail how you have been disadvantaged and no alternatives possible, not a winner by any means.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 16:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 17:32) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 18:15) *
Quite a few bank accounts no longer operate or send out cheque books. I haven't written a cheque from either my personal or business bank account for 5 years or so and only paid in one or two in that time.

Most banks won't issue a cheque book by default but will provide one free of charge if they are asked. In any event you can get a postal order from the Post Office. I don't think the OP can argue it's impossible for him to pay, at least not at this stage.



Well I don't see why you should have to mess about with postal orders. My granny used to send them to me many years ago.

Another point here is I wouldn't trust Manchester to deal with one if its systems are down and your £25 could just disappear.

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cp8759
post Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 16:42
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 17:40) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 17:32) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 18:15) *
Quite a few bank accounts no longer operate or send out cheque books. I haven't written a cheque from either my personal or business bank account for 5 years or so and only paid in one or two in that time.

Most banks won't issue a cheque book by default but will provide one free of charge if they are asked. In any event you can get a postal order from the Post Office. I don't think the OP can argue it's impossible for him to pay, at least not at this stage.



Well I don't see why you should have to mess about with postal orders. My granny used to send them to me many years ago.

Another point here is I wouldn't trust Manchester to deal with one if its systems are down and your £25 could just disappear.

But they can be "account payee" and you can prove they've been chased. If they cash it and send any further demands for money, that's a PI, and the PCN must be cancelled and refunded.


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GSTAR
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 10:37
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On the 29th of June 2018 I received a PCN from Manchester City Council for going over by 13 mins in a pay and display parking zone.

I tried to access the online portal to pay the fine, but I got an error message when I entered my PCN No. The error message said "cannot access account details".

I also tried using the automated telephone service but received error message “account has been disabled”.

I then rang up the council's parking department and was told to send an email to the representations team with all the details, etc, which I did on the 6th July 2018.

On the 7th of November 2018 I have finally received a response back from representations explaining why I received the PCN and that I now have 14/28 days to pay.

My question is, since it has been over 4 months since I received that PCN is it still valid? Can they take that long to get it processed on to their system?
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John U.K.
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 10:53
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QUOTE
My question is, since it has been over 4 months since I received that PCN is it still valid? Can they take that long to get it processed on to their system?


No, and Yes in answer to your questions.
I assume that by your ref to 14/28 they have re-offered the discount?

As usual, for best advice also post up here all sides of the PCN, a copy of your e-mail and all sides of their response and a GSV(Google Street View ) link to the location. Then the experts here can see if you've any grounds to get the PCN overturned. But post the docs here quickly, as time to preserve discount not on your side.

Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), https://imgbb.com/ (highly recommended by Stamfordman) and imgur, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 10:56
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DancingDad
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 11:23
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Let's see the PCNs and correspondence please.

Just musing and not suggesting this is the course to take but they have a 6 month limit to serve the Notice to Owner, basically 29th December.
Assuming that the 28 days they have given is from date letter was served, they cannot issue the NTO until 7th December.
I'm just wondering how sharp off the mark they will be?
Would cost full penalty to find out so let's see what we have to realistically play with.
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GSTAR
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 12:53
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Thanks guys, here is an image of the PCN:



This is all I have.

Here is the email I sent on 06/07/2018:



Their reply:

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cp8759
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 15:19
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Elizabeth Kehinde v Royal Borough of Greenwich (case reference 2180261257):

Notwithstanding that, by legislative prescription, a Notice to Owner will issue 28 days after a Penalty Charge Notice remains unpaid or unchallenged, and an Enforcement Authority has a statutory obligation to respond to formal representations [those made in response to the Notice to Owner] within 56 days, the Enforcement Authority allowed 99 days to pass before responding to the Appellant's initial representation.

No acknowledgement of receipt was issued, nor an explanation, let alone apology, for such inordinate delay. I find this to be wholly unacceptable.

I acknowledge and endorse the Appellant's interpretation of such silence to be acceptance of those representations.

I note the Enforcement Authority's statement to the effect that the Appellant was not disadvantaged due to the re-offer of the discounted penalty, I do not find that to be appeasing particularly in light of the stringent time constraints set for those challenging Penalty Charge Notices and the consequences of their non-compliance.

I do not find that the Enforcement Authority has considered the Appellant's representation in a timely manner, and I consider that action to be tantamount to procedural impropriety.

Indeed I conclude that by not duly considering the Appellant's representation in a timely fashion the Enforcement Authority had not discharged its duty under the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations & Appeals Regulations 2007 which I do find to be a procedural impropriety on the part of the Enforcement Authority.

Accordingly, I allow this Appeal.


There's just over 120 days between your initial reps and their reply, which is more than the 99 days in the case above.


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DancingDad
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 15:34
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I see a "challenge" that by no stretch of the imagination is a challenge.
It is no more then a query how to access information.
Their response cannot be taken as consideration of a query, on the contrary, they have considered and made judgement on a challenge not made.
Premature Rejection also known as fettering discretion.

Personally, I would bang back a proper challenge, assuming that you can access (I wonder if you can?) even if it is only a plea for discretion.
I suspect they will ignore or at best reject as they have already considered a challenge.
This is playing into a winning hand.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 17:03
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peterguk
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 15:36
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OP. Is this thread linked to your previous thread, also about "account disabled" in Manchester 4 months ago?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=121307&hl=

This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 15:38


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GSTAR
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 22:05
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 15:36) *
OP. Is this thread linked to your previous thread, also about "account disabled" in Manchester 4 months ago?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=121307&hl=

Yep this is a follow-up to that thread.

So what do you suggest guys, how should I proceed with this?

This post has been edited by GSTAR: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 22:05
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cp8759
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 22:10
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Well if you wait for the NtO, challenge it, and they reject it again, they normally re-offer the discount, so you might as well wait for the NtO.


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