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Two NIPs within 24 hours of each other?
throwawaycookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 05:47
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We went down to Cornwall for a few days last week (10th to 13th Aug) and today I received two separate NIPs in the post.

10/08/2022 at 18:55, 38mph in a 30.
11/08/2022 at 19:02, 38mph in a 30.

I was caught in exactly the same place on the same camera. I was travelling on unfamiliar roads and genuinely thought this road was a 40mph limit. Obviously this is no excuse as I did not pay close enough attention.

As they were so close together and the same place and speed, will these still be considered two separate offences? I have never had any other penalties in my 8 years of driving and I am distraught.

If so, is it likely I be offered a drivers awareness course for the first offence and then have to take points and a fine for the second one?
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post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 05:47
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The Rookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 06:27
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Of course they are two separate offences!

Yes, a course for one and points for the other.

If you complete the NIP Wizard as it tells you to do in the ‘read this first BEFORE’ posting sticky and have the outputs added to this thread we can look at other possible defences.

About 150,000 speeding offences are detected each year, probably less than 0.1% of those committed, no need to be ‘distraught’ over something so minor. Most people who drive will break the speed limit every journey, and I do mean every.

What is important is understanding how speed limits are conveyed to the driver, for a 40 limit the road MUST have repeaters so if there were none you didn’t really ‘genuinely thought this road was a 40 limit’, you really mean ‘I believed it was a 40 limit’ perhaps. The same way people believe in god without any hard evidence to that fact.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 06:28


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throwawaycookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 06:41
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 07:27) *
Of course they are two separate offences!

Yes, a course for one and points for the other.

If you complete the NIP Wizard as it tells you to do in the ‘read this first BEFORE’ posting sticky and have the outputs added to this thread we can look at other possible defences.

About 150,000 speeding offences are detected each year, probably less than 0.1% of those committed, no need to be ‘distraught’ over something so minor. Most people who drive will break the speed limit every journey, and I do mean every.

What is important is understanding how speed limits are conveyed to the driver, for a 40 limit the road MUST have repeaters so if there were none you didn’t really ‘genuinely thought this road was a 40 limit’, you really mean ‘I believed it was a 40 limit’ perhaps. The same way people believe in god without any hard evidence to that fact.


Thanks. I have made a mistake, clearly wasn’t paying enough attention, I will learn from it and move on.

I will return both NIPs today. When I get the options back I assume both forms will offer the opportunity of an awareness course as I have not received a penalty before, and they are both within a very short time of each other. Do I take the option of a course on one and select points/fine for the other? I assume I wouldn’t select an awareness course for both!
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The Rookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 06:55
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Why not do the NIP wizards first?

No idea, all forces have different paperwork, we can’t have intimate knowledge of them all, see what comes back and respond accordingly.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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throwawaycookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 07:04
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2022
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Longsdown Village, Penryn
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 07:04:23 +0000
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NewJudge
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 07:12
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Just out of interest, what made you "genuinely think" the road was subject to a 40mph limit? This is probably one of the most common mistakes relating to speeding offences seen on here. Since no roads have a default limit of 40mph for cars, it would help if you explained what led to your belief so that others can beware.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 10:56
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QUOTE (throwawaycookie @ Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 08:04) *
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Longsdown Village, Penryn

Are you sure?

If so that would be what is known as a vague locus, in fact it’s hard to understand how you would think an unknown road would have any particular speed limit, not least in a village that doesn’t actually exist.

Or does it actually say A394 LongDowns village? And you were caught after the big 30 signs?
https://goo.gl/maps/veHK1wLrxLDeH2aJ6

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 10:58


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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throwawaycookie
post Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 11:51
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 11:56) *
QUOTE (throwawaycookie @ Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 08:04) *
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Longsdown Village, Penryn

Are you sure?

If so that would be what is known as a vague locus, in fact it’s hard to understand how you would think an unknown road would have any particular speed limit, not least in a village that doesn’t actually exist.

Or does it actually say A394 LongDowns village? And you were caught after the big 30 signs?
https://goo.gl/maps/veHK1wLrxLDeH2aJ6


Sorry, A394 is correct. Yes it was after the big 30 signs. I clearly did not see the massive signs and therefore have no case, just a bit confused how I managed to miss it twice..

QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 08:12) *
Just out of interest, what made you "genuinely think" the road was subject to a 40mph limit? This is probably one of the most common mistakes relating to speeding offences seen on here. Since no roads have a default limit of 40mph for cars, it would help if you explained what led to your belief so that others can beware.


It was on a A road where the limit kept changing from a 30 to a 40mph with regular street lighting. I guess I just missed it, just a bit bemused how it happened twice. I know I have no excuse and will take the consequences!
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NeverMind
post Thu, 18 Aug 2022 - 13:00
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QUOTE (throwawaycookie @ Wed, 17 Aug 2022 - 06:47) *
10/08/2022 at 18:55, 38mph in a 30.
11/08/2022 at 19:02, 38mph in a 30.


A minor point - but those are not within 24 hours of each other.
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peodude
post Fri, 19 Aug 2022 - 09:33
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It's highly unlikely, but there's no harm in enclosing a covering letter with the NIP's asking for them to be dealt with as one offence.
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Ruairidh
post Sat, 27 Aug 2022 - 01:40
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I'm just interested as to how you managed to come across such little traffic to be able to do 38 along longdowns. That road is packed
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