PCN from Parking Control with the wrong date and time and are the photos legal? |
PCN from Parking Control with the wrong date and time and are the photos legal? |
Sat, 15 Jan 2022 - 11:23
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
Hello
The driver visited a car park on a date in December. It was in the afternoon after the sun had set. It was dark and there was no lighting. The driver stopped the car in a safe place, along a sidewalk. The parking spaces were full. Other cars were parked along the sidewalk too. The driver never left their car. The passenger left to collect something from a shop. They have a receipt for this with the date and time. The driver returned a week later. There was a lot of lighting this time. There were also signs saying not to park above the eye level of a driver. OP has attached a photo of the area in question. The pink square is where the driver may have waited but the driver does not know for sure because their photos do not tell the driver anything. The green arrows denote the location of the signs. The blue arrows indicate the lights that were not on when the driver visited. OP has attached photos of the PCN. The contravention time and date are wrong. The driver is not even sure if any shops in the area are open at that time. It was Boxing Day! At that time and date - the driver was in bed. Also the photos do not show where the car parked and how it was an illegal spot. The photo could be of a reg plate anywhere surely. Do you think the driver can appeal this and what should the driver say? Thank you *** Some more information because OP cannot add any more photos to the OP Here is a photo OP took of two parking signs. Can you see how high up it is? It’s literally at the top of a 1 storey building. A person of average cannot even read it without taking a photo on their phone and then zooming in. Is this legal? The second photo is very zoomed in. Photos with links because I have no more storage https://ibb.co/R9wKmzF https://ibb.co/7Nd8NJK This post has been edited by mymistake2020: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 - 09:51 |
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Sat, 15 Jan 2022 - 11:23
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:14
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
Just asking for some quick advice, their deadline to pay as per their second letter is on February 24th.
What happens if they don’t reply to my email before the deadline? I am sending the email daily. Will they still send the bailiffs around even though I did appeal and have proof of postage? |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:19
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,363 Joined: 9 Apr 2021 Member No.: 112,205 |
They can't send bailiffs round.
What do you mean by "I am sending the email daily"? If you're emailing them every day that's unlikely to speed them up. -------------------- Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice | International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:22
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
They can't send bailiffs round. What do you mean by "I am sending the email daily"? If you're emailing them every day that's unlikely to speed them up. The deadline to pay is fast approaching and I am worried. Their automated response to my email is: Thank you for contacting Parking Control 247 . Please note we do not accept appeal via email or phone. If you wish to appeal, you need to appeal in writing to PARKING CONTROL, 86 TO 90 PAUL STREET, LONDON EC2A4NE I am forwarding the same email every day as I assume that they are just ignoring me. I am hoping for a reply before the deadline. I have appealed within the correct time frame and they have not acknowledged my appeal, surely that isn’t fair. Edit: I wonder if I should just print out 50 copies of the appeal letter and send them off today. Any thoughts on this? This post has been edited by mymistake2020: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:23 |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:47
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If you just intended to pay, why did you bother appealing?
They don't uphold any appeal - where is the money in that? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:48
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Or, they have a backlog you're making worse!
Stop Sending Emails You're worrying far too much. That deadline is completely meaningless. Your plan is a stupid one, as it's a waste of ink, paper and time. Stop. In case it wasn't clear enough. You've done all you can. Stop letting a parasitical pissant firm worry yiu so much. |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 09:53
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
If you just intended to pay, why did you bother appealing? They don't uphold any appeal - where is the money in that? Of course I don’t intend to pay They sent a letter on 12.01 I sent my appeal on 27.01 A decision should be sent within 28 days On 10.02, I receive another letter stating that they have not heard from me and I have no choice but to pay That’s quite a scary letter Or, they have a backlog you're making worse! Stop Sending Emails You're worrying far too much. That deadline is completely meaningless. Your plan is a stupid one, as it's a waste of ink, paper and time. Stop. In case it wasn't clear enough. You've done all you can. Stop letting a parasitical pissant firm worry yiu so much. You are right, I will stop If I miss their deadline, their letter states: ‘ If no action is taken, the charge remains unpaid within 14 days from the date of this letter, further action will be taken to secure payment, which could include issuing court proceedings or instructing a debt recovery company to recover the debt due - both of which will incur further costs. To avoid such unnecessary costs or action, please pay the outstanding PCN.’ |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 10:24
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Who cares what they say. Debt recovery may well make them incur further costs - boohoo and who gives a monkeys?
You came for advice, please use us for it. Emailing daily makes you look like a worrier, the ideal candidate to panic into paying with a court claim - you've made a court claim more likely! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 10:41
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,363 Joined: 9 Apr 2021 Member No.: 112,205 |
I wonder if I should just print out 50 copies of the appeal letter and send them off today. Any thoughts on this? If they sent you 50 copies of the same letter at once you'd probably consider it vexatious... You don't want to appear unreasonable. As above, you want to appear confident in your position, and well-informed, not someone who is panicked by their scare tactics. -------------------- Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice | International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 10:43
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Of course you have a choice to not pay! Stop paying attention to their letters designed to scare you, as it's clearly working
They cannot force payment except through court. The step before court is a letter before claim. You would know this if you had looked at other threads. This letter is annoying, and indicates that maybe your appeal got lost in the post (and is why I never use post, online is best) but stop, bloody, worrying. You have done all you need to for now. Keep hold of proof of sending, your emails etc, and STOP DOING ANYTHING FOR NOW. |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 17:30
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
Thank you for your advice. It does appear that I was panicking.
I sent an enquiry to IAS today and this is their response Dear XXX Thank you for your enquiry. I have reviewed the system and can see that your parking charge details were added to the IAS on the 12 February 2022. Should you wish to contest the charge further with the IAS, you will need to do this by the 05 March 2022, We will make enquiries with the Parking Operator and respond further as soon as possible. Kind regards The IAS I assume this means that they have rejected my appeal on Feb 12th but not bothered to tell me Shall I wait for the IAS to respond and then submit my appeal to them? |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 17:46
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,506 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I assume this means that they have rejected my appeal on Feb 12th but not bothered to tell me Reject was inevitable. If it was an email appeal then their response could be in junk mail - or the letter is in the post. But the IAS probably won't help you either. These cases are won at court. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 17:52
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
I assume this means that they have rejected my appeal on Feb 12th but not bothered to tell me Reject was inevitable. If it was an email appeal then their response could be in junk mail - or the letter is in the post. But the IAS probably won't help you either. These cases are won at court. Thank you for your response The PCN is actually in the name of my elderly mother. I’m not sure how she will cope in court, she’ll probably think she’s going to be sentenced or arrested as she is already very worried about the rejected appeal. Might I be able to stand in for her? |
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Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 23:00
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
No, she has to attend. But be aware attendance right now is almost certainly by phone call, as most hearings are still remote. She would have to confirm she is there, you can then speak for her.
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Wed, 23 Feb 2022 - 13:36
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 12 Feb 2020 Member No.: 107,844 |
Hello everyone, may I ask the likelihood of me actually winning the appeal with IAS based on the following:
1. The “no parking signs” are approx 10 foot high and you cannot read the small print unless you take a photo and zoom in - impossible in the dark. 2. On the photographic evidence provided by the company, they attach a zoomed in photo of the sign in broad daylight yet my car was parked after sunset - surely they should provide a photo of what the sign looked like at that time of day, it was not possible to see the signs let alone read them. I have read that IAS is a ‘kangaroo court’. My mum is quite old and doesn’t want to go to court. Should I just give up and pay or are my two points good enough for a successful appeal with IAS? In addition to this; They have attached a photo of an appeal letter from another person with her full name and her address. Isn’t that a breach of data protection? This post has been edited by mymistake2020: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 - 13:37 |
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Wed, 23 Feb 2022 - 23:34
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
As you know the ias rejects 85% of all appeals. Flat.
Yes, of course that's a breach of the DPA. Doesn't help you. |
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