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UKPPO Parking Charge Notice - Legal basis far from clear, Split from hijacked thread and merged
ForNaturalJustic...
post Mon, 10 Jul 2017 - 16:03
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Newbie on this forum, so please be gentle with me if I'm slightly out of kilter with things - I've read as much as I can about your terms of use, protocols, etc, but my head's about to explode!

In June I received a letter from "UK Parking Patrol Office" alleging a parking infringement of Newcastle Airport Bye-laws, for which there appears no basis in law. At the specified time and place a passenger was photographed getting out of my car, which is shown standing in the covered entry port to the on-site hotel, just before the entry barrier, well off the yellow box grid and well clear of the end of the double red lines. I appealed to UKPPO but the response appears to be a stencil nipped & tucked here-and-there to tailor it to fit. The rejection isn't based on legal fact but on statement about signage, why a restriction has been placed in a certain area and what people are meant to do; it also cites loading/unloading as justification for the issue! It concluded that "the notice was correctly issued" (but I say their own photo makes a large part of my case for me!). There is no reference to any of the matters I raised in the appeal, so this tells me something in itself.

I responded to the rejection with a polite and tactful "Without Prejudice" letter pointing out that their appeal rejection wasn't based on legal fact but objective opinion (paraphrased) and to the effect that their case would most likely fail if tested, but to avoid having to immerse myself in a possibly protracted wrangle - and them in wasting money paying the fee when I appeal to the IAS - well ... basically, I would pay them to go away. I enclosed a cheque for half the sixty pounds "Parking Charge" demanded if paid in time (£100 if not), but this was sent back to me with a covering letter. My olive branch now rejected, I feel the emotive (but often expensive) sword of principle urging me on!

I contend that there a number of flaws in the UKPPO argument, all based on law, but now I have only a few days to appeal to the IAS. I don't want to give away too much here about my defence, but I wonder if anyone can tell me how much evidence I need to compile and submit, to give me the best chance of successfully refuting the allegation. If I need to chase down things like the traffic order creating the offence under the Bye-laws, then surely these will take time. Under what circumstances, please, does the group think I can justify asking the IAS for extra time to make my case, and can anyone point me to the resource from where I can obtain relevant legal fact? I don't really want to have further correspondence with UKPPO unless it's really necessary.

Any other observations or advice on this situation would be welcome. Thank you for being interested to read this far.
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post Mon, 10 Jul 2017 - 16:03
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ostell
post Sun, 28 Oct 2018 - 21:14
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So who are BW Legal asking you to pay? And what are BW Legal actually asking in their letter?
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Redivi
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 08:10
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Dear Sir

Ref ***

I have received your letter dated ****
Your client has seriously misled you regarding the status of its parking notices

The parking notice to which you refer states that it is nothing more than an offer not to prosecute me under the Newcastle Airport Byelaws
As the deadline for any prosecution was **** months ago, such a contract has long ceased to have any purpose
You cannot seriously be suggesting that I had a legal obligation to accept the offer

I suggest that you advise your client regarding the futility of any legal action

Yours Faithfully
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ForNaturalJustic...
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 10:45
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 28 Oct 2018 - 21:14) *
So who are BW Legal asking you to pay? And what are BW Legal actually asking in their letter?

Redacted letter attached - talks about County Court ... just usual bluster???

This post has been edited by ForNaturalJustice: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 10:52
Attached File(s)
Attached File  POSTED_REDACTED_COPY_BW_Legal_threats.pdf ( 873.38K ) Number of downloads: 114
 
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 14:10
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Its either ignorable or you send EXACTLY the letter penned by Redivi, with only the obious additions made. Do not add extra lines yourself.
This is their utterly standard template letter you can find on most BW legal threads.
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ForNaturalJustic...
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 19:40
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Thank you for the comments nosferatu and Redivi - I'll let you know what happens!
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ForNaturalJustic...
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 16:02
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OK. Another letter this time BWL saying they've been told by their client to start legal action by making a County Court claim - presumably they're trying to convert the original unwarranted charge into a civil claim, after adding their penalties for non-compliance. If I don't reply by early next month they'll do this without further notice and they estimate their haul to be nearly Two Hundred and Fifty Pounds. If they don't hear from me, they'll be asking for a CCJ, etc

The options they've given are, to -
a) pay up One Hundred and Sixty Pounds, or
b) talk to them to discuss things including payment arrangements or schedule of affordable payments.

There's also a reply form with pre-filled in boxes -
1) "I agree I owe the debt" (go to 5-6 below)
2) "I owe some of the debt, but not all of it."
3) "I don't know whether I owe the debt."
4) "I dispute the debt." ... give reasons ...
5) "I will pay what I owe now.
6) "I will pay, but I need time to pay."
7) "I am getting or intend to get debt advice."
8) "I have provided documents."
9) "I need more documents or information."

... presumably the responses will determine further action or otherwise.

As I am still firmly of the belief that there was no transgression; I feel all this is bluster and the whole business contemptible.

I can post a redacted version if this would help form views, for all of which I would be grateful.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 16:33
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You do need to respond further disputing the charge and restating your defence. Provide proof you have at this point.

State their client has no chance of success,a s they are admitted it was an offer to avoid prosecution under the byelaws. Notwithstanding that you deny there was any such breach, the option to prosecute ended on X date, 6 months after the supposed breach, and so any offer no longer has meaning.
Your position cannot seriously be that I was obliged to take up that offer

Your client would be advised to drop any idea for a claim now, as I am keeping a note of my costs
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Dave65
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 19:54
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Have a look at - "Newcastle Airport and hotel barrier again"
Posted by MidLifeCrisis

Look back on page 3 Thursday 1st November

At similar stage to you.

And the signs around the airport make no mention of any added legal costs.

This post has been edited by Dave65: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 19:55
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ForNaturalJustic...
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:50
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Thank you both for your views. Most interesting and encouraging. I've had a look at MidLifeCrisis's thread Dave65 mentioned, which indeed has parallels to mine, a post in which by Redivi at 1621 on 1 Nov (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=110473&pid=1430212&st=20&#entry1430212) makes a point, "Can you remember if any document from UKPPO or anyone else has mentioned the magistrates? If so, the parking notice was an offer that you rejected, not a debt that can be recovered in the County Court".

If this is a relevant detail, in my case, I can find no references to "magistrate" in any of the correspondence I received; indeed in nothing but the Airport By-laws is there mention. If this is another detail weakening any argument yet further, then I'll note this for my response.

So, I'm a little confused about the best course going forward, having read sooo much recently about the whole affair ...
Will it help me to fund my counter offensive by making SARs to DVLA and UKPPO and finding them wanting from the GDPR/Data Protection perspective?
What counter-claims or allegations can I make?
Will these help my case too?

I have photos of the hotel entrance setup and the relationship between the hotel entrance's "welcome" bollards and the position of my car in the photograph sent to me in the original charge notice ... I'm planning to send these to BWL with my reply to the latest letter.

Anything else???
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:54
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1) byelaws means magistrates. Only place they can be enforced. Any wording of offer to avoid prosecution or similar?

2) just sar them. Of course failing their obligations under DPA doesn't mean you're in the clear but does give an angle to attack, not defend.

3) counter claims - what ones are you thinking of?
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Redivi
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 11:49
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The reply to a claim includes the option to contest jurisdiction of the County Court for a byelaw offence

The problem is that it has the same fees as any other request for a court order - £100 for a paper application or £255 if it involves a hearing
If an application is successful, can the defendant recover the cost from the claimant ?
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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They might have to sue them for it but in principle yes (plus a sum for distress) because the rogue claimant has caused them loss due to a series of unwarranted demands.
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