Penalty Charge Notice in free ticketed car park, Didn't see signage Options

[kasper6000]

Hi,

I recently parked in a council car park which was free for parking, but required obtaining a (free of charge) ticket from the machine. There is one sign at the entrance detailing that a ticket must be obtained, and stating maximum duration of parking is 3 hours. However we did not see this sign, and parked in a car park bay next to another sign which said only, "It is an offence to park other than in authorised bays" but made no mention of need to obtain a ticket.

My plan for appeal is on the grounds that I did not park for more than 3 hours, and believe the signage to be inadequate, can anyone offer any advice for how I can get this overturned?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xsL2qcC729wLWLG4A
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Xri46ABUQBmspwCLA

Many thanks
Driver

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[stamfordman]

So you saw no other signs or a machine? How could you miss a sign at the entrance? What is this sign?

Post the PCN. What car park is this.

You can ask for discretion but councils are often not forgiving of such contraventions.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 08:11

[PASTMYBEST]

Not seeing the sign is not the same as there being inadequate signage and i count at least 4 T&C boards

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3642135,-...6384!8i8192

[cp8759]

Let's see the PCN, we don't even know the allegation right now.

[kasper6000]

So you saw no other signs or a machine? How could you miss a sign at the entrance? What is this sign?

Post the PCN. What car park is this.

You can ask for discretion but councils are often not forgiving of such contraventions.

No I didn't. If I had I would have been happy to grab a free ticket

So you saw no other signs or a machine? How could you miss a sign at the entrance? What is this sign?

Post the PCN. What car park is this.

You can ask for discretion but councils are often not forgiving of such contraventions.

No I didn't. If I had I would have been happy to grab a free ticket

PCN here https://photos.app.goo.gl/vr5UYagynucFysMw6

Not seeing the sign is not the same as there being inadequate signage and i count at least 4 T&C boards

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3642135,-...6384!8i8192

These photos are old. If there was a sign in each of the locations as per Google maps then I would have had no problem seeing the signage

Let's see the PCN, we don't even know the allegation right now.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vr5UYagynucFysMw6

[cp8759]

These photos are old. If there was a sign in each of the locations as per Google maps then I would have had no problem seeing the signage

Well let's start with the basics, go to Croydon's website and get the CEO's photos so we can take a look.

[kasper6000]

These photos are old. If there was a sign in each of the locations as per Google maps then I would have had no problem seeing the signage

Well let's start with the basics, go to Croydon's website and get the CEO's photos so we can take a look.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking me. What photos do I need to get from Croydon Council?

CEO as is Civil Enforcement officer? I can't see any photos in the parking section of the council's website, however here is a page that talk's about Croydon Council CEOs: https://www.croydon.gov.uk/transportandstre...parking/newlaws

These photos are old. If there was a sign in each of the locations as per Google maps then I would have had no problem seeing the signage

Well let's start with the basics, go to Croydon's website and get the CEO's photos so we can take a look.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking me. What photos do I need to get from Croydon Council?

CEO as is Civil Enforcement officer? I can't see any photos in the parking section of the council's website, however here is a page that talk's about Croydon Council CEOs: https://www.croydon.gov.uk/transportandstre...parking/newlaws

[hcandersen]

OP, you need to ask yourself: what actions did I take to establish the conditions of use before I left the car park?

If you just parked and walked off, possibly to the park but not via the entrance, then do not take this to adjudication. Just as the council are expected to place signs you, the driver, are expected to take reasonable steps to establish the Ts and Cs of use.

As regards your challenge, if you took reasonable steps to establish the Ts and Cs - your opening post suggests you did not and have simply referred to signs you found after the event - then say so. Otherwise IMO it's a terribly sorry etc. challenge within the discount period which ends on 10 Aug.

Looking forward:
Are you the registered keeper and are these details up to date at DVLA?

[cp8759]

Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking me. What photos do I need to get from Croydon Council?

The photos taken at the time by the enforcement officer, try these two sites:

https://ocmlive.xrxpsc.com/Croydon/OCM-FE/OCM/

https://viewmypcn.co.uk/view.aspx

[kasper6000]

my appeal, any guidance/adivce/tips would be appreciated: https://www.dropbox.com/s/la2ax10avphp3f9/P...eal_1.docx?dl=0

[hcandersen]

Not my style.

On *** I parked in the car park (which I was using for the first time (only if true)). I parked at the parking place marked ** on the attached plan.

When I parked I looked around for signs and saw one immediately adjacent to my car which said *******. I did not see any Have You Paid and Displayed signs and therefore assumed, apparently wrongly, that it was possible to park without payment as long as this was within a marked bay. As you know, it's possible to exit the car park at any point on its perimeter and I exited at ****** without seeing any further indication as to a requirement to display a free parking ticket.

I apologise and this won't happen again etc...


Remember, the addquacy or otherwise of signs is in the context of YOUR actions, so tell them what you did and why, don't lecture them.

[cp8759]

We have no idea what evidence the council has of any contravention as you've not obtained the photos, so looking at your draft would not be very helpful to you to be honest.