[NIP Wizard] purple_elk |
[NIP Wizard] purple_elk |
Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 09:59
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - August 2018 Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A541 Mold Road, Wrexham Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 11 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was not aware that I had been flashed. The speed recorded was 35mph. I am keen to look at the calibration certificate for the camera as the speed recorded is at the lowest limit of what is enforceable (to the best of my knowledge), but the NIP does not specify the camera ID. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:59:26 +0000 |
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Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 09:59
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Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 16:59
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
OK so I have now received court papers requesting that I either plead not guilty, plead guilty under the 'single justice procedure' or plead guilty in court.
I think that a not guilty plea is off the cards as there is strong evidence to the contrary. My hope is to avoid a driving ban because of work I am doing within the community delivering therapeutic drum circles to at-risk groups (for which I have evidence in the form of testimonials from individuals and organisations). I would love to save the time and money involved in going to court, but have been advised by a friend that my best chance of getting my point across well would be in court. What are peoples' views on this? Thanks in advance, Elk |
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Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:10
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
By far the best way to get mitigation across is by pleading guilty in court.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:56
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
As it's a totting ban then the matter would have to go to court to submit an exceptional hardship plea.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 08:46
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
Thanks, it's pretty clear that I should go to court.
Can anyone offer any advice regarding finding good representation? |
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 09:56
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
You don’t need representation for an exceptional hardship plea, you can do it yourself.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:44
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You don’t need representation for an exceptional hardship plea, you can do it yourself. That is true - there's a train of thought that it comes best from the individual being impacted. However, some people may feel uncomfortable with the process and would like representation. Some have claimed the representation 'saved their licence' - but the facts alone are either truly exceptional, or not. This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:44 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 14:02
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I think there would be some advantage here in being represented, a solicitor can cast a dispassionate eye over what the OP is going to present and suggest how that might be improved. If the OP simply stands up and talks about delivering therapeutic drum circles to at-risk groups, he may come across as an enthusiast for a very obscure community benefit which can be easily disregarded, whereas a solicitor explaining this may present it more convincingly.
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:03
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
Hi,
I have decided that I do want to be represented in course. Can anybody recommend how I might go about finding somebody? |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:08
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
It is important to use a specialist traffic law solicitor. Try Bobby Bell or do a search for speeding solicitor.
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 14:28
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
If it’s a plea in mitigation I think any criminal solicitor could help. I don’t think a road traffic specialist is required, though if you can get one it’s useful.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 14:35
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
It’s an EH plea, not just mitigation.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 14:44
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
It’s an EH plea, not just mitigation. Shouldn’t be beyond them. Specialist for technical defences though. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 14:54
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Perhaps you should post why you believe a totting ban will cause you exceptional hardship.
If it is something unusual perhaps a specialist solicitor might be worthwhile. If it is relatively run of the mill stuff then the need for a specialist is probably minimal The question that will likely be asked is if there is anyone else who can deliver the sessions. That depends on various factors - voluntary/paid being the key one. Presumably you gave to cart drums around so it would be impractical to use public transport - that is in your favour. |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 17:49
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
Some of the sessions are paid, others are voluntary. I am traveling up to 100 miles with twenty or more instruments so public transport or private hire is not practical. I have undergone multiple courses of specialist training and I also have a psychotherapy diploma, which allows me to work with issues such as addiction to quite a deep level, using drums in exercises which explore social and emotional issues. There are not many people in this country doing this kind of work, and none that I am aware of in my area.
I am not sure if this is relevant, but my father has had a recent diagnosis of dementia. He is not depending on me for driving, as my mum and other family members also help out. However we are all working together to support him and if I receive a ban he will miss out and it will put greater pressure on other family members. He also attends some of the drum circles and this really lifts his spirits. |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 19:00
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The usual approach for EH is the kitchen sink approach use anything at all that adds to it.
That said, bear in mind the same arguments cannot be used again for three years so if the kitchen sink approach is used any more points will leave you struggling to find much EH, keeping something back now so you can use it if needed is an option but dilutes this EH claim. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 19:08
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
As regards future points, I am already down to 8 and my plan is to drive within the law from now on! I will do everything I can to stay on the roads for now, and be mindful of the stress of all of this next time I am tempted to speed!
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Fri, 22 Feb 2019 - 12:57
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
I have decided that I am unable to afford solicitors fees, and have been advised that I only have about a 60% chance of winning, so I'm going to represent myself. In the court papers, there is a box in which I should enter any mitigation. It is my understanding that I don't really have anything in the way of mitigation, and I will be relying on the exceptional hardship argument. Do people agree with that?
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Fri, 22 Feb 2019 - 13:06
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
That's correct.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 11:04
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 11 Jun 2017 From: Manchester Member No.: 92,439 |
Hi,
Just in case anyone is interested, I represented myself and made an exceptional hardship argument on the grounds that: 1. My brother who suffers with mental health and MS depends upon me solely for support 2. Losing my license could result in my losing my business 3. Losing my license will make it impossible for me to deliver therapeutic drum circles so lots of innocent people will miss out The court was quite supportive and I was given three points but allowed to keep my license, but of course now I am driving around with eleven points and really need to be on my best behavior, as I have now used up all of my arguments and if I receive any more points I will almost certainly receive a ban. Thanks for the help everybody. Elk |
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Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 11:18
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Well done.
Shouldn't you be on 14 points? Or have the first of the points now ceased to apply for totting (I can't see any dates given). -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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