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hcandersen
Posted on: Today, 06:50


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From: Woking
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We use plenty of acronyms:
OP, that's you.
PCN, penalty charge notice;
NTO, notice to owner;
GSV, google street view;

PCN 19 Sept. You had until 2 October in which to pay the discount. After 16 Oct. the authority may issue a NTO to the registered keeper demanding payment of the penalty.

Have you challenged?
Are you the registered keeper?

Your ideas on the law in this matter are nonsense, I'm afraid, so pl put them to one side. The right to create restrictions lies with a competent council, they don't need your permission.

This is the enforcement process:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425975 · Replies: 5 · Views: 42

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:23


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+1.

'Your drivers' says it all IMO. You are not a VHF, you are either an employer with direct employees or a company using contract labour. As employment law unfolds in the courts - and more cases will follow Uber and Deliveroo, bank on it - then you might have to change tack.

But you are what you are and are not going to change because of a few PCNs. Why not just suck this one up and move on. You say your docs have been accepted previously, maybe this is an aberration and not a change of direction by authorities.

One PCN does not a crisis make, but if you take to adjudication then IMO you have far more to lose than gain.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425929 · Replies: 13 · Views: 270

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:13


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OP, we need the PCN, the challenge and reply pl. Before you send the debate off into the whathappensphere we need the whatshappenedhere.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425923 · Replies: 5 · Views: 73

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 16:40


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Does the fact that tyhe pictures of the contrevetion were taken during the day, and the photo of the sign prohibiting parking was obviously taken at another time not have any bearing?

IMO, it depends.

Are you saying the sign in the photo was not in situ at the time of the contravention and by implication was erected and photographed after the time of the contravention?

Or is this a photo of the sign which was in place?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425830 · Replies: 21 · Views: 399

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 16:35


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No you cannot.

You may draft but she must sign.

She doesn't have to word in the first person and the law recognises that RKs won't necessarily be the drivers, but there has to be clarity and there is.

The driver was my husband. He's informed me that ..../I understand that.. or whatever.

As regards an appeal in person or on the phone, you can attend/speak for her if she gives written authorisation.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425828 · Replies: 5 · Views: 73

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 14:53


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Just had reply from Worthing council on my complaint to them:

Blah, blah, blah... we are stopping this policy with immediate effect and looking to co-ordinate a change to the county-wide policy!

(not that the policy was wrong or unclear, it was simply officers' interpretation)

Wait for the rotten house of cards to tumble and carry on...I see a 'do not contest' hoving into view.

Still pressing the county not only for confirmation of their enlightenment but a statement as to what they intend to do retrospectively where penalties have been pursued and received unlawfully.

The fat lady is standing in the wings and starting to clear her throat.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425803 · Replies: 64 · Views: 1,253

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 14:45


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I've no idea of the provenance of the 'policy' or even whether it's the current version. By provenance I mean a reference to a committee report with this as an appendix and the applicable minutes.

On the face of it, a location which could be seen to cause an obstruction or danger when occupied by a regular vehicle parked next to the kerb should be marked with DYL and probably loading restrictions. Not a part-time SYL. So, if the authority were to rely on this criterion they would probably fail. I note that the opposite kerb is not even marked with a DYL - for some strange reason they've placed a short length of SYL between two lengths of DYL on the opposite kerb.

So, moving on. When was authority to remove given and in what circumstances?

If you collected your car on 10th then you have until 6 Nov to make reps.

I suggest you use the policy we've seen and write to the authority but NOT as reps but issues to inform your reps.

PCN ***** VRM *****
The above was issued on **** and removed to the vehicle pound on the same day.

The alleged contravention in this case is ********.

Before considering my representations, I should be grateful for responses to the following which arise from your policy - see attached:
If my vehicle was identified for removal by a patrolling CEO, a copy of that CEO's notes on their consideration of the council's removal criteria. In addition, a copy of the OBCEO's notes as regards their consideration of the CEO's reasoning;
If the PCN was issued by an OBCEO alone while 'patrolling', their notes as regards compliance with the removal criteria.


I am required to submit representations no later than 6 November, I should therefore require the authority to either give me a clear undertaking by return that a substantive response would be received by me sufficiently in advance of this deadline to allow me to submt reps or to do indicate at the earliest possible opportunity that they could not, a date by when they would and an extended deadline for submission of reps.

Hugs.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425800 · Replies: 6 · Views: 122

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 09:51


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Yes.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425679 · Replies: 91 · Views: 3,849

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 07:30


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..and even if it was, you have another hurdle to negotiate: are you a 'vehicle-hire firm'?

If Avis delivered pizzas, would that mean they were or weren't a VHF?

Is Uber?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425648 · Replies: 13 · Views: 270

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 07:23


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Can we please not get involved in the detail of machines and text messages but just get the details clear first.


As I understand it, you parked and paid by phone in accordance with the instructions on the machine. So, what is the procedure and how does the system let the motorist know that payment has been accepted? Did you receive this confirmation?

Your suspicions were aroused because unlike in other cases you did not receive a notification that time was nearly expired. This made you wonder whether the initial payment had gone through(l don't understand this part. Unless there was something nagging in your mind about the initial payment, why would you even think this?). Anyway, you returned to the car before expiry of the time you thought you'd paid for and found a PCN because payment was not made.

So, can you prove payment was made i.e. bank account/credit card? If not, then payment was not made and this is unarguable.

As you'd used the system before why and how did this time differ?

Anyway..PCN, your challenge, their reply, NTO(leave in dates and locations) and GSV pl.










  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425645 · Replies: 12 · Views: 204

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 21:43


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From: Woking
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You can therefore see that the council website refers to the PCN sent to ENTERPRISE and has nothing to do with you because yours would have a different number.

What has happened is that you received a PCN on the windscreen - that you didn't find it is not the issue.
The authority waited approx. 35 days and then sent the registered keeper - Enterprise- a Notice to Owner. This would take us to the end of September.
Enterprise wrote to you on 5 October having received the NTO around 2nd. The NTO gave 28 days to pay, et voila you get to 30 October. Enterprise will have submitted reps and until these are accepted their PCN is live.

Expect a PCN within the next 7-10 days.


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425604 · Replies: 21 · Views: 236

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 21:25


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From: Woking
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OP, pl don't tell us our business!

Just answer the following please:
Have you received a PCN in your name from the authority?
Is the address in Enterprise's letter yours exactly?
What are the last 3 digits of the citation number referred to in Enterprise's letter?
What are the last 3 digits of the PCN on the council website?

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425591 · Replies: 21 · Views: 236

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 12:09


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From: Woking
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@cp, but they gave a preliminary view to which adj Houghton had regard and did not disregard - he just disagreed- therefore it cannot or should not be disregarded, but one may disagree with it, as you do.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425349 · Replies: 21 · Views: 399

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:26


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From: Woking
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That you'd win at adjudication is not in doubt, the only issue being whether you would get costs in your favour.

If it were me (and I am engaged in this at present with my county council) after you win I would also formally complain through the council's complaints system on the basis that their actions are likely to lead to maladministration, therefore ultimately bringing this within the scope of the LG Ombudsman.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425341 · Replies: 43 · Views: 1,508

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:06


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From: Woking
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Neither.

Presumably we're referring to *****863, yes?

In which case a Charge Certificate has been issued.

The formal procedure is that you can do nothing with the CC and must wait until this is escalated by the authority to an Order for Recovery at which point you would be able to get the matter reset to the PCN stage, see the following:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

So, option 1 is to play a straight bat and wait for the OfR. But the obvious issue of the PCN having gone astray could resurface with the OfR doing similar which would then get messy.


Option 2, which is what I suggest, is to write to the authority, refer to the PCN, say you've only become aware of this because it's a linked PCN to PCN ******** but that you didn't receive it, accept that the normal procedure would be for you to wait for an OfR and submit a witness statement but ask whether they'd be happy to short-cut the inevitable, and save the court registration fee, and resend you the PCN.
For their records your address is:
**********

Do not argue the toss about the contravention and leave your ideas of 56 days in an air-tight container and place in a darkened room.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425303 · Replies: 26 · Views: 403

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 08:13


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Originally you posted:

So I got out the car as it was a hot day and waited to get hold of them.

Which has now become:
I had to wait for it to clear which takes about 20 minutes. It’s not an exact science.

No mention of 'waiting to get hold of them'.

So if the OP's argument is sound then they could continue to breakdown and then self-select how long they'd remain stationary (engine recovery being 'not an exact science').

Also I don't understand the significance of 'a hot day'. The pressurised side of the cooling system gets to 90 deg within minutes of starting, irrespective of the ambient temp.

If you can challenge without risking the discount, then do so if you wish.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425254 · Replies: 14 · Views: 200

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 07:48


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You've paid the original penalty and added charges. Nothing is outstanding.

Get your V5C.

1. What is the 'docref' date, this is the date on which DVLA changed the entry in their register.
2. What does it say regarding notifying DVLA in the event of a change of details i.e. that if the new keeper does not receive a nee V5C within ** days of notifying DVLA then they must contact them. This is the only detail I need.

There is a saying that if you act in haste, you may repent at leisure. Don't fall into this trap. You need all relevant dates one of which is the docref date. IMO you do not need the backstory because TEC are not an Agony Aunt, they have a legal duty and only need data relevant to that context.

I think all you need is 2 actual dates: the PCN and docref. That's it.

The docref won't tell TEC when you applied to DVLA, but the V5C will say something along the lines of if you've not heard with 30 days.

So you'd work back. DVLA updated my V5C on ****. I cannot remember ( if true) the exact date on which I notified them but according to the instructions on the V5C this must have been around ****.
The PCN (and presumably all subsequent notices) was issued on ****.
For 5 months the authority have been pursuing me on a parallel plane with no prospect of convergence on their part because they relied on what turned out to be out of date DVLA data.
That the enforcement agents established my address with apparent ease suggests this could and should have been dealt with much earlier if a little lateral thinking had been applied by the authority.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425250 · Replies: 12 · Views: 179

hcandersen
Posted on: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 07:00


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From: Woking
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Permits have to be dislayed because that's one of their stated terms of use. Display is not required to be stated on the sign.

Permit identifier, pay at machine and display ticket, see items 7 and 2 of the Part 4 Sign Table:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425242 · Replies: 11 · Views: 186

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:45


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From: Woking
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I parked, left the car, went shopping and returned.

You didn't phone anyone or any body for assistance, you just went shopping while your car cooled down. And overheating affected your car how? And did it actually overheat or was the temp sensor faulty - happy memories of my new Mk1 Scirocco c1977 ( same VAG group, maybe the problem's still there!!)

I'd pay the discount and just move on, Christmas is coming and you probably have better things to do with your time than post repeatedly here.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425183 · Replies: 14 · Views: 200

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 16:01


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From: Woking
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The 2nd and 3rd photos show that in the space of 6 seconds a stunned snail with heavy shopping and a limp would have travelled further i.e. you were stationary.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425120 · Replies: 9 · Views: 142

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 12:44


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From: Woking
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I like to convey to adjudicators that the the appellant is human and not a barrack-room lawyer. They are not looking for advocacy, they're looking for humanity and credibility.

I have found that a certain amount of levity works. I can still remember the faces of the Employment Tribunal judges at the London South centre who asked whether I was legally qualified, to which I replied no, unless watching Judge Judy every day qualified me. Their smiles suggested that if the matter was to be determined on the margins I would have their support.

We won.

But each to their own.

For example, I would write to the council now and ask what is the purpose of the 4p charge and does the revenue fall within the ring-fenced parking revenue account. I don't see that any answer or none at all would do anything other than help the OP.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425076 · Replies: 33 · Views: 812

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 11:32


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I would suggest adding that the case in question is an even worse example than that which was determined by the court. At least in that case the unlawful surcharge was capped at 1.3% whereas in this case the unlawful surcharge is at the whim of the authority being the product an unknown number of 4ps and service charges depending upon the convolutions of and time taken to navigate the authority's payment system. I am certain that the adjudicator would have experienced similar in their life with the strains of Handel's Water Music clocking-up untold access and service charges while 'oh hold' to an organisation which 'values their custom'.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425054 · Replies: 33 · Views: 812

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 10:06


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OP, no matter how many times you insert 'hire agreement' into this doc, it isn't. In fact it's nothing like a hiring agreement, to use the correct term. And this is not what a 'vehicle-hire firm' would issue, its terms purport to go well beyond the scope of anything that an arm's-length VHC's hiring agreement would ever contain.

IMO, this is part of the employee's contract of employment, even if on the so-called gig economy.

And as for insurance! And what happens if payment of the correct amount is not made by the specified time?

Have you had this looked at by a legally qualified person? If you have, then their English grammar leaves something to be desired:

I accept, not I except
One week's rental, not one weeks'
The same week's notice, not weeks' notice.

And so on.

But you say that this is what you've used previously.

Have you used with TfL?


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425032 · Replies: 13 · Views: 270

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 07:16


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From: Woking
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OP, let's cut to the chase.

So I got out the car as it was a hot day and waited to get hold of them.

So exactly what did you do when you got out of the car?
How soon after receiving the PCN did you leave the parking bay?
How was the car re-started?

Your problem is convincing sceptics that you didn't just stop, leave the car, carry out some local business and return..but too late, your risk-management having failed you on this occasion.

And pl don't think all you have to do is to tell the authority you broke down and everyone will live happily ever after, this is not going to happen.

You are behind the 8-ball and will need proof of entitlement to any exemption under the traffic order.

And you cannot draft a challenge to until we've seen the PCN.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425010 · Replies: 14 · Views: 200

hcandersen
Posted on: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 07:05


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From: Woking
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OP, you must, must, must be clear.

An incorrect address is not a 'wrong' or 'old' address.

Examples:
Zip held address ABCD1, whether you lived there or not.
They advised authority ABCE1

This is notifying wrong address.

Zip held ABCD1
You lived at ABCD2
Zip notified authority of ABCD1

This is notifying correct address, that is the one they were required to provide, but it was incorrect because you didn't live there and had not updated Zip.

In either case, authority must use the address supplied - which they've accepted as part of their decision to cancel Zip's PCN - and continue to use until notified otherwise by a competent person.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1425009 · Replies: 31 · Views: 469

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