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PCN for Red Route
salam
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 15:14
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Hi All,

I got a PCN for stopping in a red route at the wrong time, however, from my recollection I only got out of the vehicle to check the signage and then left. The photos on the PCN are only 2 minutes apart so I contested it via email. A month or so later they sent a letter with a DVD stating "enclosed is the footage I requested". I dont have a DVD/CD player so never got a chance to look at it. Instead I waited to get an email or letter to say my appeal was either accepted or rejected. Instead I just got another charge on the PCN saying I never responded so now it is £195.

Was I wrong is assuming they should either accept or reject the PCN?

Can I do anything now or is it too late?

Regards
Seenan
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post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 15:14
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stamfordman
post Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 15:25
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If you didn't get a rejection letter then you can file a witness statement as per the process in the link.

But what did you say in your email - did you just request the video or did you challange the PCN properly? Can you appeal by email to TFL?

Post what you sent them.

Was it a CCTV PCN from TFL?

Also copy and paste the status timeline on TFL's site.

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 - 15:25
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salam
post Thu, 6 Feb 2020 - 12:06
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I'm trying to locate the original PCN and will post that along with the letter they sent with the DVD and then the new revised PCN with the higher charge.

I don't know where the record of my email is though? I used the TFL website so don't have the email in my sent box and never got a copy of it from them. I definitely did not request the video evidence - I made an appeal based on the photos they sent me which were time stamped a minute or two apart. And I cited the fact that I exited the vehicle to check the signage and then vacated the spot. I genuinely think that is what happened but cannot be sure as it was such a long time ago. So if that was not the case, aren't they still obliged to reject my PCN and tell me so and then give me the chance to pay the reduced amount?
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cp8759
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:00
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TFL does not commit itself to re-offering the discount, but it seems likely the rejection letter got lost in the post. The process you must now follow is explained here https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...ment-process#ws

In a nutshell you wait for the Order for Recovery, then file a witness statement on the basis that you made a representation but never received a rejection. It's a good idea to call TEC https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/...ment-centre-tec every 10 days or so to see if the debt has been registered, if the Order for Recovery were to go missing things can get very messy.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 19:01


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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salam
post Tue, 11 Feb 2020 - 15:54
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After appealing online I got the following letter with the DVD:



Then I got the following (is this the order for recovery??):

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hcandersen
post Tue, 11 Feb 2020 - 16:35
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OP, you must know that you've given us an impossible task and probably created procedural problems for yourself.

You cannot challenge the Charge Certificate, procedurally all you can do to avoid having to pay the surcharged penalty is to wait for the next notice called an Order for Recovery enclosed with which would be a form called a witness statement. You could tick the box stating that you made representations but did not receive a response, sign a statement of truth and send to the Traffic Enforcement Centre(clear and comprehensive instructions are in the accompanying docs).

The authority would then refer the matter to the adjudicator for directions. They would claim that you did not make reps in the form required, enclose a copy of what you did submit and argue that because you submitted a false witness statement this matter should not be heard as an appeal but instead you should be directed by the adjudicator to pay the outstanding penalty.

The part in bold is the key.

Don't lose precious time just looking for what you sent, in parallel you must write to TfL and explain that you believe that the 'correspondence' to which they referred in their letter dated 31 Dec. was representations against the PCN and not, as the authority have interpreted matters, merely a request for the video. You are acting on memory in this regard as you cannot put your hand on what you submitted - this was done online. Nonetheless, as the authority would be required to submit this document to the adjudicator (in support of any argument on their part when referring the matter to the adjudicator that any witness statement submitted by you should not lead to this matter being heard as an appeal) it would save all parties' time if they were simply to provide you with a copy of the 'correspondence'.

This is the long version.

The short version is: contact TfL, ask for a copy and confirm this by email.
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salam
post Tue, 11 Feb 2020 - 17:03
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Thanks for the long and short version - any idea how to contact TFL/ which email might be best?

I went to the challange PCN website and checked my PCN history:

PCN status history
03 February 2020Charge Certificate Batched
N/A

27 December 2019On Hold: SUS54 - DTES Footage Request (11/01/2020)
N/A

27 December 2019Representation submitted Under review
N/A

24 December 2019Email dispatched to: seenan.alam@gmail.com Subj Representation receipted
N/A

24 December 2019On Hold: SUS26 - Representation Received
N/A

06 December 2019PCN Batched
N/A

05 December 2019Representation Accepted
TfL has accepted a representation received for this PCN.

27 November 2019Representation submitted Under review
N/A

25 November 2019On Hold: SUS26 - Representation Received
N/A

13 November 2019PCN Batched
N/A
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cp8759
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 00:17
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TFL emailed you, does that email have an address you can reply to?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 08:27
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At present all that's happening is that you are losing precious time.

They can serve the OfR as early as 18 Feb. In practice probably late Feb, early March.

Email them and then phone a couple of days later to check they have your request.

But get it in writing. An adj would be more impressed with a PROMPT and verifiable response by you to the CC, after all you were surprised to receive it, weren't you?

And PROMPT is starting to fade.........

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 - 10:22
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